Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu - Adobe illustrator

This is a discussion on Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu - Adobe illustrator ; After opening certain files with Illustrator CS2 we will have in the Font Menu duplicate Helvetica Black, Helvetica Bold and Helvetica Condensed. These Helvetica's are not duplicated in the Find Font Menu. We use Extensis Suitcase to manage our fonts. ...

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Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

  1. Default Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    After opening certain files with Illustrator CS2 we will have in the Font Menu duplicate Helvetica Black, Helvetica Bold and Helvetica Condensed.

    These Helvetica's are not duplicated in the Find Font Menu.

    We use Extensis Suitcase to manage our fonts. We have one set of Helvetica's on our System (10.4.8).

    We are crashing a lot in Illustrator CS2 opening .ai files or Saving as .ai or .pdf and belive there may be a connection to the duplicated font listing.

    We are unable to print some pdfs until we replace the duplicated Helvetica's in Illustrator with another font save the file and quit Illustrator. Upon re-opening the subject file and restoring the Helvetica back to the file (now Helvetica's are not duplicated) and recreate the pdf.

    Has anyone else seen this?

  2. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    Don;t use Suitcase my suggestion try Font Agent pro or the free Linotype font manager.

    But to start turn off Autoactivation and remove the plug in from the Illustrator Plug in Folder.

  3. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    Wade - there is nothing wrong with using Suitecase as long aas you do not use the auto-activation plug-ins for ID and AI. I've used Suitecase for years without any problems whatsoever and still do on an Intel iMac. Using one or the other font-management application does really not matter. What matters is having your fonts in order and having control over them and knowing what you do with your fonts.

  4. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    This is a problem in Illustrator not Suitcase. This is related to the RKSJ font error problem. From what I have been able to find out the problem is caused by the AI file created with a different type of Helvetica then it is opened with. Meaning the Helvetica active when this file was created has different encodeing than the Helvetica you have active when opening the file. The best way to get rid of this is to replace all of the Helveticas in the file with the one you have on your system, preferably a legal copy of Adobe's Helvetica.

    First to do this to see what I'm talking about.
    Without having any Helvetica fonts active on the Mac open this file in
    AICS2. Notice that AICS2 is looking for Helvetica-Bold-83pv-RKSJ-H.
    Iteresting think here is if you activate your Helvetica the error does not show. I have encountered some RIP's that will not process this file due to this error.

    Here's the solution:
    Deacitvate all Helveticas on your Mac.
    Open the file in AI and ignore the font warnings.
    Replace Helvetica with some off the wall font not in the file, like Courier.
    Save the file.
    Quit AI.

    You may have to do this three times depending on which Helveticas have been used in the file. I have only encountered problems with Roman, Bold, and Italic.

    Once you have completed this for each variation of Helvetica quit AI one more time and activate your Helvetica you know is good.
    Replace each of the off the wall fonts with the proper Helvetica.
    Replace Courier with Helvetica

  5. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    That should fix the problem.

    If anyone has any more information on this I would like to hear. I haven't been able to get an information from Adobe.

  6. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    My original thought where the odd Helvetica-Bold-83pf-RKSJ-H and others were coming from Word Documents or AutoCAD files that originated from a Windows PC that we cut and paste in to Illustrator on a Mac, but haven't been able to recreate. We've used the same Helvetica's purchased from Adobe for years. We have control of, and knowledge of the fonts residing on our Mac's. This appears to be something relatively new. Another thought was that a program called Font Doctor ships with Suitcase and possibly it has modified the Helvetica's on few of our Macs in the process of repairing what it thinks were corrupt fonts, but all our Macs appear to have the same version of Helvetica

    Thanks Sam

  7. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    I would not use Suitcase or Font Doctor this is a mistake regardless of what these other people are saying but you do not have to listen to me. Reinstall the fonts and get another font manager is my suggestion.

    Or you can find work arounds and have fun in the process.

  8. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    As far as my experience with this problem goes, the strange Helveticas (like Helvetica-Bold-83pf-RKSJ-H) only show up when we are updating a previous Illustrator file - especially if it is older than Illustrator 10. It is as if in the conversion process the new type system in CS2 jumbles up the postscript name/info for several Helveticas. I usually see my Helvetica Roman (postscript) become Helvetica 83pv, and just recently it has become Helvetica 90ms. I assure you neither of these Helveticas are on my system, and I doubt that Font Reserve 3.1.4 is the culprit in this case. I also have Suitcase Fusion installed and I get the same problem while using it. I think it is simply a problem with the new type system in Illustrator (with all the new opentype crap very few people use) when updating or converting type into CS2. All of the fonts on my system are verified NOT-corrupt so that is definitely not why I am getting this problem (I inspected and cleaned out all of our fonts recently when we upgraded to CS2). Something we all need to do is avoid using the Helvetica family anymore. These fonts have been around so long and there are so many ridiculous versions. Helvetica Neue is the solution to that (though there are a couple versions of it floating around unfortunately). When I have this problem I can actually switch the wacky Helvetica to a Helvetica Neue counterpart and it corrects the type - but it does slightly alter the type and you may not even have the entire Helvetica Neue family to do it this way. Anyway, let me know your thoughts on this.

  9. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    Thank you for the thoughtful response.

    We worked in Illustrator 8 for years skipped 9 and 10 upgrades and began using Illustrator CS August of 2004.

    The 1st case of the problem Helvetica's show up in March of 2006.

    We've converted thousands of files from Illustrator 8 prior with no problem.

    In our case, after one of these files is opened up Illustrator CS or CS2 it acts like a Vector spreading this problem on to files that were previously good unless Illustrator is quit to flush out the bad Helveticas.

    I was finally passed on to the Adobe Font Technical Service and told that it was a Extensis Suitcase problem because all the people that have called in with the same issue run Extensis Suitcase.

    Do you use a Esko Graphics workflow?

    Below is what I sent to Adobe Technical Support.

    When the file is opened, the Adobe Illustrator CS2 application is modified overriding our standard installed Helvetica Black and Helvetica Condensed Medium fonts.

    Illustrators Font Menu now shows 2 Helvetica Blacks and 2 Helvetica Condensed.

    If you use a file collection program or use Illustrator Document Info Menu, instead of our standard Roman Language fonts it shows Helvetica-Black-83pv-RKSJ-H and Helvetica-Condensed-83pv-RKSJ-H and lists it as a Japanese Language Font which we do not have on our systems (our Roman version is effectively locked out, but the file still displays correctly).

    Standard Font Menus only show them in itís listing as a duplications of Helvetica Black and Condensed so itís hard to catch.

    All subsequent files saved from Illustrator CS2 will now have what is showing as these Japanese Language Fonts instead of our Standard Roman versions.

    These files have been causing problems with and failing at different RIPs in our Graphics Workflow (Esko FlexRIP, AVT Proof IT and Fiery EXP250) and suspect also the frequent crashing of Illustrator on opening and saving.

    There is a file installed in the Library/Application Support/Adobe/Fonts/Reqrd/Cmaps/83pv-RKSJ-H that matches the text string in the unusual fonts names and if I remove this text file it disrupts the behavior of the file after quitting and re launching Illustrator.

    In most cases on the re launch of Illustrator and opening the subject file, the fonts will show as missing and will allow us to replace the font with our standard Roman Language Version.

    After replacing the fonts we must quit Illustrator again before opening the next file or the problem will be passed on if this next file is saved.

    We have not been able to track down the originating source.

  10. Default Re: Duplicated Helvetica's In Font Menu

    Just for the record Suitcase has never been installed on my Mac and I can still reproduce the problem. The easiest way to get the file through a rip is to outline the fonts.

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