Re: APL is Alive +ACY- Well V/S APL Needs to learn

On May 24, 12:44*am, "jk" <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote:
> +ACI-kai+ACI- +ADw-kaithomasmax+AEA-googlemail.com+AD4- wrote in message
>
> news:8d8ea3a1-2f90-4106-8ba8-1de1524fe67f+AEA-l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com..*..
> +AD4- ...deleted...
> +AD4APg- APL Wiki ? I wouldn't stay there for longer than two secs. Maybe
> +AD4APg- matter
> +AD4APg- of taste.
> +AD4- ...deleted...
> +AD4-
> +AD4- Shall I ignore this? If not, what shall I say? Anyway, I cannot
> +AD4- resist:
> +AD4-
> +AD4- I've spent month on investigating different wiki software packages,
> +AD4- find out about configuration problems, Unicode, browser flaws and font
> +AD4- madness.
> +AD4- Finally I managed to get it to work with most of the modern browsers..
> +AD4-
> +AD4- I've spent some more month to put material onto the Wiki. Thanks to
> +AD4- Stephen Taylor, who contributed significantly to the Wiki as well, we
> +AD4- managed to get articles and examples into the Wiki which attracted
> +AD4- surprisingly many visitors over the last couple of month.
> +AD4-
> +AD4- However, there must be room for improvement when it took only 2
> +AD4- seconds to establish a competent opinion.
> +AD4- Thank you so much for your valueable input.
> +AD4-
> +AD4- Kai
>
> Kai,
> Don't understand me wrong. I know the effort a decent website demands.
> It's fine from an APL-er's point of view. I'm trying to look from a
> +ACI-random+ACI- person's view. Keep in mind there are at least 8 or 9 billion
> websites. It's not to discourage you, but I don't *think it's an
> incentive for people in general to get interested in APL. Look at APL
> Wiki's home page. How would people arrive there? I don't see any term on
> it by which people would hit APL Wiki, except in case they would type
> +ACI-APL Wiki+ACI- in Google. Filling out terms in +ACI-META Keywords+ACI-is useless.
> Some consolation: 80+ACU- of all websites are designed that way. Very
> clumsy.
> My experience: let it look nice (example Dyalog's), attractive,
> appealing. This will need some creative dexterity. Put some effort in
> navigation - very important+ACE- Look how big companies are setting up
> their sites. Without exception they have their pages divided in three
> parts: left for navigation, middle for main information and a right pane
> for allusive information.
> Then, have sufficient keywords, incidental and explicit, on your home
> (front) page, preferable in large size. Change texts on your home page
> from time to time - the least ones will be noticed by Google's crawler
> and the more they frequents the earlier they will be indexed and
> recognized as +ACI-interesting+ACI-.

Please consider this message to be written before my pledge to
disappear for a few days :-)

Many good points here. However, at this point, getting interesting
CONTENT on the WiKi seems to be the main priority to me (OK, I feel
guilty again but I swear I will make this up before the end of the
summer). At the moment, the WiKi remains a bit too thin to be really
interesting (to newcomers) and I actually wouldn't want to make too
much of an effort to attract newbies who will probably be discouraged
by the amount of stuff which is there.

So, to everyone who wants to ask what you can do for APL, having
satisfied yourself about what APL can do for you:

Please think of useful examples of APL code and write them up on the
WiKi: My personal priority is going to be helping to explaining the
value of APL and in particular, how to help the less technically
skilled APL user do tricky interfacing jobs, etc. Write a draft,
bounce your ideas off one or two friends (ideally ones who have a
different view of APL than you do yourself), and when everyone is
quote happy unquote, publish it! Kai has done a ton of work to provide
us with this platform, he has ironed out most of the technical
problems, and it is time for the rest of us to take advantage of it!

Over and Out...

P.S. Jan, you still have some sort of technical problem with your text
editor, it looks like some of what should be markup is getting turned
into text...

On May 24, 2:48 am, Morten Kromberg <mk...@dyalog.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 12:44 am, "jk" <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote:
>
>
>
> > +ACI-kai+ACI- +ADw-kaithomasmax+AEA-googlemail.com+AD4- wrote in message
>
> > news:8d8ea3a1-2f90-4106-8ba8-1de1524fe67f+AEA-l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com.*..
> > +AD4- ...deleted...
> > +AD4APg- APL Wiki ? I wouldn't stay there for longer than two secs. Maybe
> > +AD4APg- matter
> > +AD4APg- of taste.
> > +AD4- ...deleted...
> > +AD4-
> > +AD4- Shall I ignore this? If not, what shall I say? Anyway, I cannot
> > +AD4- resist:
> > +AD4-
> > +AD4- I've spent month on investigating different wiki software packages,
> > +AD4- find out about configuration problems, Unicode, browser flaws and font
> > +AD4- madness.
> > +AD4- Finally I managed to get it to work with most of the modern browsers.
> > +AD4-
> > +AD4- I've spent some more month to put material onto the Wiki. Thanks to
> > +AD4- Stephen Taylor, who contributed significantly to the Wiki as well,we
> > +AD4- managed to get articles and examples into the Wiki which attracted
> > +AD4- surprisingly many visitors over the last couple of month.
> > +AD4-
> > +AD4- However, there must be room for improvement when it took only 2
> > +AD4- seconds to establish a competent opinion.
> > +AD4- Thank you so much for your valueable input.
> > +AD4-
> > +AD4- Kai
>
> > Kai,
> > Don't understand me wrong. I know the effort a decent website demands.
> > It's fine from an APL-er's point of view. I'm trying to look from a
> > +ACI-random+ACI- person's view. Keep in mind there are at least 8 or 9 billion
> > websites. It's not to discourage you, but I don't think it's an
> > incentive for people in general to get interested in APL. Look at APL
> > Wiki's home page. How would people arrive there? I don't see any term on
> > it by which people would hit APL Wiki, except in case they would type
> > +ACI-APL Wiki+ACI- in Google. Filling out terms in +ACI-META Keywords+ACI- is useless.
> > Some consolation: 80+ACU- of all websites are designed that way. Very
> > clumsy.
> > My experience: let it look nice (example Dyalog's), attractive,
> > appealing. This will need some creative dexterity. Put some effort in
> > navigation - very important+ACE- Look how big companies are setting up
> > their sites. Without exception they have their pages divided in three
> > parts: left for navigation, middle for main information and a right pane
> > for allusive information.
> > Then, have sufficient keywords, incidental and explicit, on your home
> > (front) page, preferable in large size. Change texts on your home page
> > from time to time - the least ones will be noticed by Google's crawler
> > and the more they frequents the earlier they will be indexed and
> > recognized as +ACI-interesting+ACI-.
>
> Please consider this message to be written before my pledge to
> disappear for a few days :-)
>
> Many good points here. However, at this point, getting interesting
> CONTENT on the WiKi seems to be the main priority to me (OK, I feel
> guilty again but I swear I will make this up before the end of the
> summer). At the moment, the WiKi remains a bit too thin to be really
> interesting (to newcomers) and I actually wouldn't want to make too
> much of an effort to attract newbies who will probably be discouraged
> by the amount of stuff which is there.
>
> So, to everyone who wants to ask what you can do for APL, having
> satisfied yourself about what APL can do for you:
>
> Please think of useful examples of APL code and write them up on the
> WiKi: My personal priority is going to be helping to explaining the
> value of APL and in particular, how to help the less technically
> skilled APL user do tricky interfacing jobs, etc. Write a draft,
> bounce your ideas off one or two friends (ideally ones who have a
> different view of APL than you do yourself), and when everyone is
> quote happy unquote, publish it! Kai has done a ton of work to provide
> us with this platform, he has ironed out most of the technical
> problems, and it is time for the rest of us to take advantage of it!
>
> Over and Out...
>
> P.S. Jan, you still have some sort of technical problem with your text
> editor, it looks like some of what should be markup is getting turned
> into text...

On Jun 10, 11:47 pm, Jack <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On May 24, 2:48 am, Morten Kromberg <mk...@dyalog.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 24, 12:44 am, "jk" <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote:
>
> > > +ACI-kai+ACI- +ADw-kaithomasmax+AEA-googlemail.com+AD4- wrote in message
>
> > > news:8d8ea3a1-2f90-4106-8ba8-1de1524fe67f+AEA-l64g2000hse.googlegroups..com.*..
> > > +AD4- ...deleted...
> > > +AD4APg- APL Wiki ? I wouldn't stay there for longer than two secs. Maybe
> > > +AD4APg- matter
> > > +AD4APg- of taste.
> > > +AD4- ...deleted...
> > > +AD4-
> > > +AD4- Shall I ignore this? If not, what shall I say? Anyway, I cannot
> > > +AD4- resist:
> > > +AD4-
> > > +AD4- I've spent month on investigating different wiki software packages,
> > > +AD4- find out about configuration problems, Unicode, browser flaws and font
> > > +AD4- madness.
> > > +AD4- Finally I managed to get it to work with most of the modern browsers.
> > > +AD4-
> > > +AD4- I've spent some more month to put material onto the Wiki. Thanksto
> > > +AD4- Stephen Taylor, who contributed significantly to the Wiki as well, we
> > > +AD4- managed to get articles and examples into the Wiki which attracted
> > > +AD4- surprisingly many visitors over the last couple of month.
> > > +AD4-
> > > +AD4- However, there must be room for improvement when it took only 2
> > > +AD4- seconds to establish a competent opinion.
> > > +AD4- Thank you so much for your valueable input.
> > > +AD4-
> > > +AD4- Kai
>
> > > Kai,
> > > Don't understand me wrong. I know the effort a decent website demands.
> > > It's fine from an APL-er's point of view. I'm trying to look from a
> > > +ACI-random+ACI- person's view. Keep in mind there are at least 8 or 9billion
> > > websites. It's not to discourage you, but I don't think it's an
> > > incentive for people in general to get interested in APL. Look at APL
> > > Wiki's home page. How would people arrive there? I don't see any term on
> > > it by which people would hit APL Wiki, except in case they would type
> > > +ACI-APL Wiki+ACI- in Google. Filling out terms in +ACI-META Keywords+ACI- is useless.
> > > Some consolation: 80+ACU- of all websites are designed that way. Very
> > > clumsy.
> > > My experience: let it look nice (example Dyalog's), attractive,
> > > appealing. This will need some creative dexterity. Put some effort in
> > > navigation - very important+ACE- Look how big companies are setting up
> > > their sites. Without exception they have their pages divided in three
> > > parts: left for navigation, middle for main information and a right pane
> > > for allusive information.
> > > Then, have sufficient keywords, incidental and explicit, on your home
> > > (front) page, preferable in large size. Change texts on your home page
> > > from time to time - the least ones will be noticed by Google's crawler
> > > and the more they frequents the earlier they will be indexed and
> > > recognized as +ACI-interesting+ACI-.
>
> > Please consider this message to be written before my pledge to
> > disappear for a few days :-)
>
> > Many good points here. However, at this point, getting interesting
> > CONTENT on the WiKi seems to be the main priority to me (OK, I feel
> > guilty again but I swear I will make this up before the end of the
> > summer). At the moment, the WiKi remains a bit too thin to be really
> > interesting (to newcomers) and I actually wouldn't want to make too
> > much of an effort to attract newbies who will probably be discouraged
> > by the amount of stuff which is there.
>
> > So, to everyone who wants to ask what you can do for APL, having
> > satisfied yourself about what APL can do for you:
>
> > Please think of useful examples of APL code and write them up on the
> > WiKi: My personal priority is going to be helping to explaining the
> > value of APL and in particular, how to help the less technically
> > skilled APL user do tricky interfacing jobs, etc. Write a draft,
> > bounce your ideas off one or two friends (ideally ones who have a
> > different view of APL than you do yourself), and when everyone is
> > quote happy unquote, publish it! Kai has done a ton of work to provide
> > us with this platform, he has ironed out most of the technical
> > problems, and it is time for the rest of us to take advantage of it!
>
> > Over and Out...
>
> > P.S. Jan, you still have some sort of technical problem with your text
> > editor, it looks like some of what should be markup is getting turned
> > into text...

Not directing this at anyone in particular, but it's amusing to see so
much desire by some for others to behave according to some fancied
collectivist vision. We vendors and APL users are all individuals
with our own judgment and experiences. We will make our own
decisions, thank you very much. Speaking as an American, my forebears
fled such collectivist nonsense, and I'm quite glad of it.
Jack

On Jun 10, 11:47 pm, Jack <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Not directing this at anyone in particular, but it's amusing to see so
> much desire by some for others to behave according to some fancied
> collectivist vision. We vendors and APL users are all individuals
> with our own judgment and experiences. We will make our own
> decisions, thank you very much. Speaking as an American, my forebears
> fled such collectivist nonsense, and I'm quite glad of it.
> Jack

thanks for being so mild Jack, I've seen harsher from over there (e.g.
submitted letters in The Economist - oh, boy ...), but remember, the
most fervent individualists have left - nevertheless, we'll manage here
....
*\jk

On Jun 11, 5:33 am, "jk" <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 11:47 pm, Jack <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Not directing this at anyone in particular, but it's amusing to see so
> > much desire by some for others to behave according to some fancied
> > collectivist vision. We vendors and APL users are all individuals
> > with our own judgment and experiences. We will make our own
> > decisions, thank you very much. Speaking as an American, my forebears
> > fled such collectivist nonsense, and I'm quite glad of it.
> > Jack
>
> thanks for being so mild Jack, I've seen harsher from over there (e.g.
> submitted letters in The Economist - oh, boy ...), but remember, the
> most fervent individualists have left - nevertheless, we'll manage here
> ...
> *\jk

You're welcome. I'm a peaceable man, usually carrying only one
handgun at a time.
Your post also was mild. Peace be upon you.