Re: Vector themed issue: How to wear sheepskin

"jk" <aqxqy@planet.nl (remove the q's)> wrote in message
news:48bf8d90$0$27235$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl ...
>
> "Dirk van Deun" <dvandeun@vub.spam-me-not.ac.be> wrote in message
> news:g9mvjq$lab$1@snic.vub.ac.be...
>>: Something like:
>>
>> : C:\Program Files\j602\bin>jconsole -js "a=:12 13 123" "echo (+/a)"
>> : exit'' 1>c:\
>> : temp\jawkut.txt
>>
>> : C:\Program Files\j602\bin>type c:\temp\jawkut.txt
>> : 148
>>
>> I think I did not make sufficiently clear earlier what kind of
>> thing I had in mind. I was actually thinking of packaging an
>> APL-like
>> language as a tool in the unix tradition: something small, handy,
>> and meant for operating on text files. For instance, if you have a
>> simple table in a text file like:
>>
>> cola, 2, 0.70
>> juice, 1, 0.95
>>
>
> I just checked, I have 17 non-trivial mutual independent K-routines,
> just finger-exercises, among them amortization of annuity, math'l
> graduation of mortality, any-string separated text searching
> (published
> here a few days back), an OLAP routine &c, together counting for <
> 40Kb;
> the K-interpreter, including the pertaining dll is < 200Kb.
> How small do you want it? And it's damn fast!
> Example: www.ganuenta.com/annuity.exe
> You may view several scripts from my website:
> path: samples | K | Show or Script
> ^\jk
>

Dirk, even "that substantial" people don't trust!

: I just checked, I have 17 non-trivial mutual independent K-routines,
: just finger-exercises, among them amortization of annuity, math'l
: graduation of mortality, any-string separated text searching (published
: here a few days back), an OLAP routine &c, together counting for < 40Kb;
: the K-interpreter, including the pertaining dll is < 200Kb.
: How small do you want it? And it's damn fast!

I am not doubting that, nor was I saying that all these things cannot
be done in APL, or J, or K.

This (part of the) discussion started about whether open sourcing J or
whatever APL-like language would be worthwhile. So I did not intend
to start a discussion about the capabilities of APL, J or K, but about
how they can be presented to the bearded anarchist linux hacker in a
way that they will appeal to him (because these are the people that
might actually contribute code eventually). I think I have a pretty
good idea about how to present them to this audience, being a bearded
anarchist linux hacker myself, and that is
a) with a totally free license;
b) in the form of a tool that you can start using after reading a
2 page tutorial, and successful applications of which will then
convince you to learn more over time as you are using it.
For the APL crowd these conditions may not be very important, but they
are to many people who contribute code to projects.

Of course, if the people behind J do not want to open source their
interpreter, that is their right. But making old code available
without even mentioning a current mail address to send bug reports and
improvements to, does not count as: we tried and it did not work.
Open sourcing also means actively inviting, even luring, developers
into a community, by making the product relevant to them, and assuring
them that contributions are welcomed. So I was just suggesting a
strategy which could actually work, in case they would one day want to.

Personally, I am going to play a bit with the 1993 interpreter, but
that is just because I was already interested in J, and chances
are small that this one bearded anarchist linux hacker will be the one
to find a bug or implement a cool improvement.

Dirk van Deun
--
Ceterum censeo Redmond delendum

On 4 Sep, 13:29, dvand...@vub.spam-me-not.ac.be (Dirk van Deun) wrote:
> : I just checked, I have 17 non-trivial mutual independent K-routines,
> : just finger-exercises, among them amortization of annuity, math'l
> : graduation of mortality, any-string separated text searching (published
> : here a few days back), an OLAP routine &c, together counting for < 40Kb;
> : the K-interpreter, including the pertaining dll is < 200Kb.
> : How small do you want it? And it's damn fast!
>
> I am not doubting that, nor was I saying that all these things cannot
> be done in APL, or J, or K.
>
> This (part of the) discussion started about whether open sourcing J or
> whatever APL-like language would be worthwhile. *So I did not intend
> to start a discussion about the capabilities of APL, J or K, but about
> how they can be presented to the bearded anarchist linux hacker in a
> way that they will appeal to him (because these are the people that
> might actually contribute code eventually). *I think I have a pretty
> good idea about how to present them to this audience, being a bearded
> anarchist linux hacker myself, and that is
> * a) with a totally free license;
> * b) in the form of a tool that you can start using after reading a
> * * * *2 page tutorial, and successful applications of which willthen
> * * * *convince you to learn more over time as you are using it.
> For the APL crowd these conditions may not be very important, but they
> are to many people who contribute code to projects.
>
> Of course, if the people behind J do not want to open source their
> interpreter, that is their right. *But making old code available
> without even mentioning a current mail address to send bug reports and
> improvements to, does not count as: we tried and it did not work.
> Open sourcing also means actively inviting, even luring, developers
> into a community, by making the product relevant to them, and assuring
> them that contributions are welcomed. *So I was just suggesting a
> strategy which could actually work, in case they would one day want to.
>
> Personally, I am going to play a bit with the 1993 interpreter, but
> that is just because I was already interested in J, and chances
> are small that this one bearded anarchist linux hacker will be the one
> to find a bug or implement a cool improvement.
>
> Dirk van Deun
> --
> Ceterum censeo Redmond delendum

For most people it takes years to understand what is going on in APL
let alone understand the workings behind the scenes.
In general then just using APL for simple things it is simpler to use
than ordinary calculator.
For 99% of people what was available 30 years ago in APL is more than
enough to get by with all their programming needs.