IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE VERY BIG PROGRAM (ERP) USING CLARION?

We are the programmers’ team which has been using CLARION for last
twenty years.

For period of one year we are making ERP which should have 1500-2000
procedures, ( we made 600) and, in last few months we are trying to
solve problem that bothers us and we can’t find a solution.
ENVIRONMENT:
Hardware: Processor 2Ghz, 1GB RAM…
OS: MS VISTA Professional
Database: MS SQL 2005
Clarion 6.1
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Since now, we made two essentially different scenarios.

SCENARIO ONE:
1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures
2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu
2.1. Procedure 1: Collecting connect string with login
information
2.2. Procedure 2: Represents main menu and START (Procedure3)
2.3. Procedure 3: Creates user menu and START (Procedure 4, “
Procedure name ”)
2.4. Procedure 4: Recognizes “Procedure name” and calls correct
MDI child procedure placed in dll
3. 12-15 dll’s which had 50-100 procedures, each (two of those dll’s
were over 4 Mb). One dll handles one logical part (HR, finances, etc)
Result: Program crashed in different parts and events without
apparent reason. In The Task Manager we see that program was engaging
more and more RAM illogically. Sometimes, program crashes with error
report (GPF), sometimes without any error report. ?!!

SCENARIO TWO:
1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures (like
scenario one)
2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu (like scenario
one)
3. 37 dll’s which had 4-5 procedures each (browse, select, update
and report for one table)
Result: Program starts to load and then disappears without any error
report. Interesting point: Deleting any single procedure from dll
makes program start normally. After that, adding any other procedure
makes program disappear.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QUESTIONS:
Q1. Is there any other scenario? Note: We don’t want an exe file for
each logical part (HR, finances, etc)
Q2. Does CLARION have any limitations on number of:
2.1. procedures
2.2. dll’s
2.3. modules per single dll
Q3. Is there anybody who tried to make an ERP in Clarion before?
Q4. Is any tuning of OS needed, to make the program with so many
(1500-2000) procedures work?
Q5. What tool, instead of Clarion, is suitable for this task?

Yes, it's possible to have a program that big especially since you are using
..DLLs. I think you need more RAM memory especially since your operating
system is Vista (a memory hog) and you are using MS-SQL database which can
also be a memory hog. I think you should migrate your app up to Clarion 6.3
9056 as well. It sounds like you might be having threading problems causing
your GPF's. You don't say whether the app is ABC or Clarion/Legacy
templates or hand coded.

You will get more and better answers on the news.softvelocity.com
newsgroup.
--
---
Best Regards,
Earl R Coker
ksasales AT machlink DOT com
www.kwiksystems.net
www.kwiksystems.com
www.kwiksystems.net/appshell/index.htm
www.kwiksystems.net/ClarionTemplates.htm (BigTamer(tm) Templates)

<zoransoskic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f33bc1b5-6c39-4de5-aa56-e253cafe0d8f@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
We are the programmers’ team which has been using CLARION for last
twenty years.

For period of one year we are making ERP which should have 1500-2000
procedures, ( we made 600) and, in last few months we are trying to
solve problem that bothers us and we can’t find a solution.
ENVIRONMENT:
Hardware: Processor 2Ghz, 1GB RAM…
OS: MS VISTA Professional
Database: MS SQL 2005
Clarion 6.1
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Since now, we made two essentially different scenarios.

SCENARIO ONE:
1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures
2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu
2.1. Procedure 1: Collecting connect string with login
information
2.2. Procedure 2: Represents main menu and START (Procedure3)
2.3. Procedure 3: Creates user menu and START (Procedure 4, “
Procedure name ”)
2.4. Procedure 4: Recognizes “Procedure name” and calls correct
MDI child procedure placed in dll
3. 12-15 dll’s which had 50-100 procedures, each (two of those dll’s
were over 4 Mb). One dll handles one logical part (HR, finances, etc)
Result: Program crashed in different parts and events without
apparent reason. In The Task Manager we see that program was engaging
more and more RAM illogically. Sometimes, program crashes with error
report (GPF), sometimes without any error report. ?!!

SCENARIO TWO:
1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures (like
scenario one)
2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu (like scenario
one)
3. 37 dll’s which had 4-5 procedures each (browse, select, update
and report for one table)
Result: Program starts to load and then disappears without any error
report. Interesting point: Deleting any single procedure from dll
makes program start normally. After that, adding any other procedure
makes program disappear.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QUESTIONS:
Q1. Is there any other scenario? Note: We don’t want an exe file for
each logical part (HR, finances, etc)
Q2. Does CLARION have any limitations on number of:
2.1. procedures
2.2. dll’s
2.3. modules per single dll
Q3. Is there anybody who tried to make an ERP in Clarion before?
Q4. Is any tuning of OS needed, to make the program with so many
(1500-2000) procedures work?
Q5. What tool, instead of Clarion, is suitable for this task?

On May 2, 4:22 pm, zoransos...@hotmail.com wrote:
> QUESTIONS:
> Q1. Is there any other scenario? Note: We don’t want an exe file for
> each logical part (HR, finances, etc)
> Q2. Does CLARION have any limitations on number of:
> 2.1. procedures
> 2.2. dll’s
> 2.3. modules per single dll
> Q3. Is there anybody who tried to make an ERP in Clarion before?
> Q4. Is any tuning of OS needed, to make the program with so many
> (1500-2000) procedures work?
> Q5. What tool, instead of Clarion, is suitable for this task?
Being a person that works with ERP systems (PeopleSoft) on a daily
basis, I would have to say that using Clarion to create and sort of
exe, dll that has basic business logic would be a limiting factor when
it comes to patching/upgrading. I would think that having the
business logic embedded in the database (like other ERP systems) and
then having the 'clarion' program would be the run time engine would
be a better model to follow.

Good luck.
-brad

> Yes, it's possible to have a program that big especially since you are using
> .DLLs. I think you need more RAM memory especially since your operating
> system is Vista (a memory hog) and you are using MS-SQL database which can
> also be a memory hog. I think you should migrate your app up to Clarion 6..3
> 9056 as well. It sounds like you might be having threading problems causing
> your GPF's. You don't say whether the app is ABC or Clarion/Legacy
> templates or hand coded.


Thanks for answer. We put another 1 GB RAM on one machine and we have
a same problem.
Quantity of memory is not a problem.

We work with ABC templates.

Why do you suggest migration on Clarion 6.3? Do you think we have a
threading problem?
In .DCT we did not check option ‘Open in Current Thread’ on any
tables, also, problems we
have with program disappearing on start do not indicate threading
problems.

> Being a person that works with ERP systems (PeopleSoft) on a daily
> basis, I would have to say that using Clarion to create and sort of
> exe, dll that has basic business logic would be a limiting factor when
> it comes to patching/upgrading. I would think that having the
> business logic embedded in the database (like other ERP systems) and
> then having the 'clarion' program would be the run time engine would
> be a better model to follow.

This is interesting issue. We believed ABC would be better for big
app.
We have a few not small apps made with Clarion chain and they work
without problems,
but we decided to make a ABC application because we wanted “advanced
technology”
in advanced software we attended to make.

Please, would you be kind and tell as do you develop ERP in handcode
or template,
and do you have any hand made templates. Also, we wanted to know
approximately
how many procedures you have in your ERP, and how many DLLs….

I am not expert in the problems you are having. You should go to C6.3
anyway because it has some fixes you should be using regardless of what kind
of app you are developing. It's just better all around version. Again, I
suggested you go to this newsgroup news.softvelocity.com which has a
lot more activity to get more answers from some very knowledgeable people
that can help you with your problem a lot better than I can.
--
---
Best Regards,
Earl R Coker
ksasales AT machlink DOT com
www.kwiksystems.net
www.kwiksystems.com
www.kwiksystems.net/appshell/index.htm
www.kwiksystems.net/ClarionTemplates.htm (BigTamer(tm) Templates)

<zoransoskic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d9e478b-3d72-4f71-9f8d-2c458ed93b1e@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> Yes, it's possible to have a program that big especially since you are
> using
> .DLLs. I think you need more RAM memory especially since your operating
> system is Vista (a memory hog) and you are using MS-SQL database which can
> also be a memory hog. I think you should migrate your app up to Clarion
> 6.3
> 9056 as well. It sounds like you might be having threading problems
> causing
> your GPF's. You don't say whether the app is ABC or Clarion/Legacy
> templates or hand coded.


Thanks for answer. We put another 1 GB RAM on one machine and we have
a same problem.
Quantity of memory is not a problem.

We work with ABC templates.

Why do you suggest migration on Clarion 6.3? Do you think we have a
threading problem?
In .DCT we did not check option ‘Open in Current Thread’ on any
tables, also, problems we
have with program disappearing on start do not indicate threading
problems.

Hi,

Your errors might be related to handling global data (threaded vs non
threaded) or data are declared differently in global dll and other
dlls

Leonid Chudakov
chudakov@klarisoft.com

On May 2, 4:22 pm, zoransos...@hotmail.com wrote:
> We are the programmers’ team which has been using CLARION for last
> twenty years.
>
> For period of one year we are making ERP which should have 1500-2000
> procedures, ( we made 600) and, in last few months we are trying to
> solve problem that bothers us and we can’t find a solution.
> ENVIRONMENT:
> Hardware: Processor 2Ghz, 1GB RAM…
> OS: MS VISTA Professional
> Database: MS SQL 2005
> Clarion 6.1
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Since now, we made two essentially different scenarios.
>
> SCENARIO ONE:
> 1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures
> 2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu
> 2.1. Procedure 1: Collecting connect string with login
> information
> 2.2. Procedure 2: Represents main menu and START (Procedure3)
> 2.3. Procedure 3: Creates user menu and START (Procedure 4, “
> Procedure name ”)
> 2.4. Procedure 4: Recognizes “Procedure name” and calls correct
> MDI child procedure placed in dll
> 3. 12-15 dll’s which had 50-100 procedures, each (two of those dll’s
> were over 4 Mb). One dll handles one logical part (HR, finances, etc)
> Result: Program crashed in different parts and events without
> apparent reason. In The Task Manager we see that program was engaging
> more and more RAM illogically. Sometimes, program crashes with error
> report (GPF), sometimes without any error report. ?!!
>
> SCENARIO TWO:
> 1. Single FaraonDCT.dll with global variables and procedures (like
> scenario one)
> 2. Single FaraonERP.exe which represents basic menu (like scenario
> one)
> 3. 37 dll’s which had 4-5 procedures each (browse, select, update
> and report for one table)
> Result: Program starts to load and then disappears without any error
> report. Interesting point: Deleting any single procedure from dll
> makes program start normally. After that, adding any other procedure
> makes program disappear.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> QUESTIONS:
> Q1. Is there any other scenario? Note: We don’t want an exe file for
> each logical part (HR, finances, etc)
> Q2. Does CLARION have any limitations on number of:
> 2.1. procedures
> 2.2. dll’s
> 2.3. modules per single dll
> Q3. Is there anybody who tried to make an ERP in Clarion before?
> Q4. Is any tuning of OS needed, to make the program with so many
> (1500-2000) procedures work?
> Q5. What tool, instead of Clarion, is suitable for this task?