Re Programming Contest

------------------------
> >I wonder if Sea Side Sam will have any comments?
------------------------

Hummmm... Yes.

I will begin by stating that I have a problem with UseNet (or whatever you call this medium) in
that this is strictly a 'written-word' medium with the words being written by individuals all over
the world leaving much room for interpertation of meaning and context. Anyone that has
'made it' in this business knows the importance of communications. In this thread I find little
communicating. I started the thread, so maybe I set the tone in my original posting.

---------------------------
> >It was in response to one old-timer's
> >comments about coding perhaps to help him 'remember'.
---------------------------

There are various motivations in 'rememberingj'. Get upset with your present monitor... put
a monochrome monitor in it's place for a few minutes and you'll remember... The first code I
wrote that went into production was first punched to paper tape, fed into a computer, then
written to mag tape. My second coding effort that went into production was one six-bit byte
that I entered directly into the computer then wrote to mag tape. From time to time I do go
back in my memory to 'remember', but not in the sense of 'the good ole days', rather in an
effort at keeping my brain attached to my foundaition. The first code was an accounting
snippit. The second changed the way we killed people. I was a 20 year old country boy
instructing a computer in how to count, and how to kill. BTW. The first code was 'straight-
line', the second (believe it or not) was 'structured'.

-------------------------
I also use a subset, but a completely different subset, one that
excludes GO TO, PERFORM THRU, and SECTION.
-------------------------

And it works for you. You are hired if you can get the job done in the time allocated. I
assume that you are young (my years) and thus have a long career in front of you. I assume
this because you don't use 'SECTION' (another assumption; SECTION as in sectioning) thus
you have little or no experience with memory constraints. I don't see this as a problem
since I think it unlikely that we'll ever go back to 640k machines. You're still hired, but you
must play nice in my sand box.

I consider myself fortunate in that I stumbled into programming by accident, my first exposure
to computers being at the machine-code level, and that the on-the-job training I received
involved real-world applications with code written by 2nd-dipper Navy programmers. Navy
programmers were in no way 'special' programmers, they were mostly Navy retirees looking
for a 2nd retirement check. This didn't make them good unless your definition of good is
'cautious'. Those Navy programmers might produce only one line of code a day, but it was
a well-tested line of code. My text books were the code. Compact. Structured. Tested.

When I left the Navy I went to work for the Governor of the State of Missouri. There I was
taught COBOL and DOS/JCL. The instructor only knew straight-line so we (there were 3
in the class) were taught straight-line. At the end of the class there was a competition: read
data from punched-cards, sort, sum, print the results, winner being the one with the fastest
execution time with correct sums. I have won every programming contest I was ever entered
into (1) or will ever enter into. The instructor was confused because it was an accepted
truth that straight-line was the best way. My response was that there is good and bad coding
practices in both methodologies.

As stated above, I have problems with UseNet. When I read a posting I attempt to not takej
whatever said personnaly, and the same with posting; I attempt to keep it professional, or at
the least civil. Using my definitions of course. I can assure you that if it were possible I
would enjoy tipping a glass with youall in some watering hole in Wellington, NZ (I'd still like
to see NZ when it wasn't raining) because the conversations would be spirited. And at the
end of the day I will still not give a rat's ass rather you use GOTO or not, but you will be
judged by the way you handle your liquor.

------------------------
> >I wonder if Sea Side Sam will have any comments?
------------------------

Aren't you glad you asked?

Enjoy the day whereever you are.

sss

ps. i have more to say... all you have to do is ask...


--------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
-= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-

On Sep 2, 10:40*am, "SeaSideSam" <Sam@theSeaSide> wrote:
> ------------------------> >I wonder if Sea Side Sam will have any comments?
>
> ------------------------
>
> Hummmm... *Yes.
>
> I will begin by stating that I have a problem with UseNet (or whatever you call this medium) in
> that this is strictly a 'written-word' medium with the words being written by individuals all over
> the world leaving much room for interpertation of meaning and context. *Anyone that has
> 'made it' in this business knows the importance of communications. *In this thread I find little
> communicating. *I started the thread, so maybe I set the tone in my original posting.
>
> ---------------------------> >It was in response to one old-timer's
> > >comments about coding perhaps to help him 'remember'.
>
> ---------------------------
>
> There are various motivations in 'rememberingj'. *Get upset with your present monitor... put
> a monochrome monitor in it's place for a few minutes and you'll remember.... *The first code I
> wrote that went into production was first punched to paper tape, fed intoa computer, then
> written to mag tape. *My second coding effort that went into productionwas one six-bit byte
> that I entered directly into the computer then wrote to mag tape. *Fromtime to time I do go
> back in my memory to 'remember', but not in the sense of 'the good ole days', rather in an
> effort at keeping my brain attached to my foundaition. *The first code was an accounting
> snippit. *The second changed the way we killed people. *I was a 20 year old country boy
> instructing a computer in how to count, and how to kill. *BTW. *The first code was 'straight-
> line', the second (believe it or not) was 'structured'.
>
> -------------------------
> I also use a subset, but a completely different subset, one that
> excludes GO TO, PERFORM THRU, and SECTION.
> -------------------------
>
> And it works for you. *You are hired if you can get the job done in thetime allocated. *I
> assume that you are young (my years) and thus have a long career in frontof you. *

Ironically, tomorrow will be the 40th anniversary of my being in the
computer industry.

> I assume
> this because you don't use 'SECTION' (another assumption; SECTION as in sectioning) thus
> you have little or no experience with memory constraints.

The first machine that I programmed for had 16 KWords (24 bit) of
core.

>*I don't see this as a problem
> since I think it unlikely that we'll ever go back to 640k machines.

640Kb, good grief I used 2.5 MHz 8085AH with 64Kb. 640Kb could run 3
or 4 users on a multi-user system.

>*You're still hired, but you
> must play nice in my sand box.
>
> I consider myself fortunate in that I stumbled into programming by accident, my first exposure
> to computers being at the machine-code level, and that the on-the-job training I received
> involved real-world applications with code written by 2nd-dipper Navy programmers. *Navy
> programmers were in no way 'special' programmers, they were mostly Navy retirees looking
> for a 2nd retirement check. *This didn't make them good unless your definition of good is
> 'cautious'. *Those Navy programmers might produce only one line of codea day, but it was
> a well-tested line of code. *My text books were the code. *Compact. *Structured. *Tested.
>
> When I left the Navy I went to work for the Governor of the State of Missouri. *There I was
> taught COBOL and DOS/JCL. *The instructor only knew straight-line so we(there were 3
> in the class) were taught straight-line. *At the end of the class therewas a competition: *read
> data from punched-cards, sort, sum, print the results, winner being the one with the fastest
> execution time with correct sums. *I have won every programming contestI was ever entered
> into (1) or will ever enter into. *The instructor was confused because it was an accepted
> truth that straight-line was the best way. *My response was that there is good and bad coding
> practices in both methodologies.
>
> As stated above, I have problems with UseNet. *When I read a posting I attempt to not takej
> whatever said personnaly, and the same with posting; I attempt to keep itprofessional, or at
> the least civil. *Using my definitions of course. *I can assure you that if it were possible I
> would enjoy tipping a glass with youall in some watering hole in Wellington, NZ (I'd still like
> to see NZ when it wasn't raining)

That would be difficult, especially here in Auckland.


> because the conversations would be spirited. *And at the
> end of the day I will still not give a rat's ass rather you use GOTO or not, but you will be
> judged by the way you handle your liquor.

I 'handle' it by tipping it out. I decided not to drink (for no
particular reason) and haven't missed it at all. But then I haven't
missed days or nights either.


> ------------------------> >I wonder if Sea Side Sam will have any comments?
>
> ------------------------
>
> Aren't you glad you asked?
>
> Enjoy the day whereever you are.
>
> sss
>
> ps. *i have more to say... all you have to do is ask...
>
> --------------= *Posted using GrabIt *=----------------
> ------= *Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> -= *Get GrabIt for free fromhttp://www.shemes.com/*=-

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:40:34 -0500, "SeaSideSam" <Sam@theSeaSide> wrote:

>I consider myself fortunate in that I stumbled into programming by accident,

My introduction to computers occurred in 1961 on Okinawa. I was in Marine Corps Special
Operations (recon). I heard another unit had "a 1401" in a truck and it was a big deal, so
I went there to check it out. I walked into the truck, saw "the 1401" and had an EPIPHANY
experience. I instinctively knew it was "a computer", no one had told me that. I knew it
had a thing called memory, and stored in that memory were instructions to the computer,
and I would spend the rest of my life writing those instructions. No one told me any of
those things, I just knew in a flash of insight, by looking at the machine. I got myself
transferred to the computer unit and the rest is history.

That machine had 4K x 6 bits of memory, which was not enough to run a Cobol compiler. I
read in books that 'monster machines' with 16K (x 6 bits) could run the compiler. I worked
on them later in civilian life. I also worked on machines even more crippled for memory,
like the IBM 650 and 704. And I worked on 'supercomputers' such as the IBM 7044 and
7094.The latter cost Big Bucks to execute a line of code. They said the cost to display a
line on the console was the same as a long distance call from Los Angeles to Albuquerque.
Horrors.