treeview performance

#1 08-27-2008, 06:11 PM

I just learned of an IBM patent(7412649 ) awarded this month for a
method of populating a treeview that improves performance by loading
only the upper level nodes and loading childnodes only when an
upperlevel node is expanded. Has not this method been around for at
least ten years? I remember reading articles on it back in the VB6
days, but cannot locate them now. Anyway, just curious. The patent was
filed in 2005 and there must be numerous examples of so-called "prior
art" on this before that date. If anyone has a refernce to prior
literatue or actual software, let me know.

Bill

#2 08-27-2008, 06:39 PM

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:11:05 -0700, Bill <billsahiker@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I just learned of an IBM patent(7412649 ) awarded this month for a
> method of populating a treeview that improves performance by loading
> only the upper level nodes and loading childnodes only when an
> upperlevel node is expanded. Has not this method been around for at
> least ten years? I remember reading articles on it back in the VB6
> days, but cannot locate them now. Anyway, just curious. The patent was
> filed in 2005 and there must be numerous examples of so-called "prior
> art" on this before that date. If anyone has a refernce to prior
> literatue or actual software, let me know.

I wrote code for and released a program that does exactly what you
describe, at least a couple of years ago. So yes, I know for a fact there
is "prior art" (probably earlier than my own, but at a minimum from the
program I wrote).

That said, surely the patent isn't as simple as you describe, and for the
exact reason you state: this isn't exactly an innovative technique. If
IBM was granted the patent, there must be more to it than simply deferring
the data acquisition for child nodes.

Or not. But if not, it would be trivial to contest.

Pete

#3 08-27-2008, 06:45 PM

On 27/08/2008 in message
<175ab849-53d3-480f-bf57-a82e0e5a25dd@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Bill
wrote:

>I just learned of an IBM patent(7412649 ) awarded this month for a
>method of populating a treeview that improves performance by loading
>only the upper level nodes and loading childnodes only when an
>upperlevel node is expanded. Has not this method been around for at

No, use Google and find out what it's really about.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

#4 08-27-2008, 07:13 PM

I was doing that with VB 5, in 1996. I came up with the technique
independently, IIRC, although I have no doubt that others were doing the
same thing. I still have the code in a zip file, which probably retains its
file times, so I could prove that it's been in use at least twelve years.

Tom Dacon
Dacon Software Consulting

"Bill" <billsahiker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:175ab849-53d3-480f-bf57-a82e0e5a25dd@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>I just learned of an IBM patent(7412649 ) awarded this month for a
> method of populating a treeview that improves performance by loading
> only the upper level nodes and loading childnodes only when an
> upperlevel node is expanded. Has not this method been around for at
> least ten years? I remember reading articles on it back in the VB6
> days, but cannot locate them now. Anyway, just curious. The patent was
> filed in 2005 and there must be numerous examples of so-called "prior
> art" on this before that date. If anyone has a refernce to prior
> literatue or actual software, let me know.
>
> Bill

#5 08-27-2008, 07:26 PM

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:13:37 -0700, Tom Dacon <tdacon@community.nospam>
wrote:

> I was doing that with VB 5, in 1996. I came up with the technique
> independently, IIRC, although I have no doubt that others were doing the
> same thing. I still have the code in a zip file, which probably retains
> its
> file times, so I could prove that it's been in use at least twelve years.

All data can be forged. You'd have to have some other proof, such as
having delivered to the code to another party. Just having a ZIP file
that contains timestamps of a particular age doesn't prove anything.

But as mentioned before, it's unlikely that the patent really is as simple
as the OP says. The idea is too obvious and there are too many examples
of previous implementations.

Pete

#6 08-27-2008, 07:35 PM

I read the entire patent application and downloaded much of it. see
for yourself at www.uspto.gov. Just choose search and follow the links
to where you search by patent number and enter the number I gave here.
IBM does couch things differently than what most programers use. for
example, the child nodes of the root are referred to as upper level
nodes.
> That said, surely the patent isn't as simple as you describe, and for the*
> exact reason you state: this isn't exactly an innovative technique. *If*
> IBM was granted the patent, there must be more to it than simply deferring *
> the data acquisition for child nodes.
>
> Or not. *But if not, it would be trivial to contest.
>
> Pete

#7 08-28-2008, 04:16 AM

Bill wrote:
> I just learned of an IBM patent(7412649 ) awarded this month for a
> method of populating a treeview that improves performance by loading
> only the upper level nodes and loading childnodes only when an
> upperlevel node is expanded. Has not this method been around for at
> least ten years? I remember reading articles on it back in the VB6
> days, but cannot locate them now. Anyway, just curious. The patent was
> filed in 2005 and there must be numerous examples of so-called "prior
> art" on this before that date. If anyone has a refernce to prior
> literatue or actual software, let me know.

Yes, we use that method at least since 2002, and it's the logical step
after you've ran into a problem where adding all nodes is simply too
slow. Windows explorer uses the same approach btw. There's a regkey
which allows you to read all nodes up front (forgot which one) which
makes it crawl.

Software patents are evil, let's just hope the software impaired
nuttcases making the laws will get it one day.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

#8 08-28-2008, 05:04 AM

Do you have a full URL to the info? I can't find it! According to this
page

http://www.latestpatents.com/2008/08...2-august-2008/

The number you specified is
"Viewing and editing markup language files with complex semantics"

Pete

#9 08-28-2008, 11:41 AM

I agree with your points. I'd like to see the patent. Has anyone posted a
link?

Tom

"Peter Duniho" <NpOeStPeAdM@nnowslpianmk.com> wrote in message
news

p.ugkjd2rp8jd0ej@petes-computer.local...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:13:37 -0700, Tom Dacon <tdacon@community.nospam>
> wrote:
>
>> I was doing that with VB 5, in 1996. I came up with the technique
>> independently, IIRC, although I have no doubt that others were doing the
>> same thing. I still have the code in a zip file, which probably retains
>> its
>> file times, so I could prove that it's been in use at least twelve years.
>
> All data can be forged. You'd have to have some other proof, such as
> having delivered to the code to another party. Just having a ZIP file
> that contains timestamps of a particular age doesn't prove anything.
>
> But as mentioned before, it's unlikely that the patent really is as simple
> as the OP says. The idea is too obvious and there are too many examples
> of previous implementations.
>
> Pete

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