masters, work, then back to school... is this possible?

Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
to graduate school from college. I was actually admitted, and intended, to
do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
is not the right PLACE for me. So now I am thinking of going to work for a
few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
I really want to go to. Am I making the right choice? Is this even
doable? I also have little clue to what companies / job titles I should be
looking for. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank!

On 3 Sep, 15:09, "Fishilicious" <vnz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> to graduate school from college. *I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> is not the right PLACE for me. *So now I am thinking of going to work for a
> few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
> I really want to go to. *Am I making the right choice?

No one can answer that but you. It depends on what you *really* want
from your job - what makes *you* tick. Som epeople want to teach,
and get their kicks from watching students finally 'get' it after
weeks or months of hard work. Others want to make an impact in
an organization by solving problems or gacilitating new ways of
work. Others still just want the title and paycheck, while yet
others just want an undisturbed office where they can hide in
obscurity till retirement.

Rune

On Sep 3, 8:28*am, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 3 Sep, 15:09, "Fishilicious" <vnz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> > to graduate school from college. *I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> > do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> > is not the right PLACE for me. *So now I am thinking of going to workfor a
> > few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
> > I really want to go to. *Am I making the right choice?
>
> No one can answer that but you. It depends on what you *really* want
> from your job - what makes *you* tick. Som epeople want to teach,
> and get their kicks from watching students finally 'get' it after
> weeks or months of hard work. Others want to make an impact in
> an organization by solving problems or gacilitating new ways of
> work. Others still just want the title and paycheck, while yet
> others just want an undisturbed office where they can hide in
> obscurity till retirement.
>
> Rune

I agree with Rune. Nobody here can answer your question without
significant uncertainty. The best you can hope for from posting here
is to get some help in pointing things out which you may not have
anticipated yourself.

In my personal experience, I know quite a few people who promised
that they would "go back to school" but very very few do. Those who
do tend to have found work that is very academic-oriented and/or
research-oriented.

Further, you should consider the following questions seriously:

1. what makes you think that your current place is not the
right place for you,

2. what makes you think that another place will be the right place
for you?

3. why do you want to do a PhD in the first place?

4. why not transfer to a different PhD program rather than "go to
work"?

Julius

You are making the right choice if you do not screw it up by getting
in debt, getting married, or otherwise committing your time and money,
or losing your motivation to study or your willingness to live a
"student" lifestyle, before you get around to finishing it. I would
not recommend graduate school part-time, it takes too long and
decreases the chance you will finish. A PhD (which I do not have)
will benefit you your whole life in opportunities that might otherwise
be much more difficult to obtain (opportunitities that you are
qualified for, and ones you aren't, but will get because of the PhD),
and some pay increase (how much depends on if you remain puirely
technical or get into management). With a PhD it is easier to get into
management if you want that now or later. Get it early in your carreer
so you can reap as much of the benefits as possible.

My comments are based on decades of observations in the work
environment.

Dirk (only an MSEE, and yes I wish I had finished a PhD)

Fishilicious wrote:
> Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> to graduate school from college. I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> is not the right PLACE for me. So now I am thinking of going to work for a
> few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
> I really want to go to. Am I making the right choice? Is this even
> doable? I also have little clue to what companies / job titles I should be
> looking for. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank!

"Fishilicious" <vnzens@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> to graduate school from college. I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> is not the right PLACE for me. So now I am thinking of going to work for a
> few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
> I really want to go to. Am I making the right choice? Is this even
> doable? I also have little clue to what companies / job titles I should be
> looking for. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank!

I think your plan is fine. Follow your heart.
--
% Randy Yates % "Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % you still wander the fields of your
%%% 919-577-9882 % sorrow."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

On Sep 3, 9:47 am, dbell <bellda2...@cox.net> wrote:
> You are making the right choice if you do not screw it up by getting
> in debt, getting married, or otherwise committing your time and money,
> or losing your motivation to study or your willingness to live a
> "student" lifestyle, before you get around to finishing it. I would
> not recommend graduate school part-time, it takes too long and
> decreases the chance you will finish. A PhD (which I do not have)
> will benefit you your whole life in opportunities that might otherwise
> be much more difficult to obtain (opportunitities that you are
> qualified for, and ones you aren't, but will get because of the PhD),
> and some pay increase (how much depends on if you remain puirely
> technical or get into management). With a PhD it is easier to get into
> management if you want that now or later. Get it early in your carreer
> so you can reap as much of the benefits as possible.
>
> My comments are based on decades of observations in the work
> environment.
>
> Dirk (only an MSEE, and yes I wish I had finished a PhD)
>
> Fishilicious wrote:
> > Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> > to graduate school from college. I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> > do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> > is not the right PLACE for me. So now I am thinking of going to work for a
> > few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one school that
> > I really want to go to. Am I making the right choice? Is this even
> > doable? I also have little clue to what companies / job titles I should be
> > looking for. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank!

I have to politely disagree with Dirk, I've found there are very few
places where a PhD is necessary - it does however help to have at
least a Masters. The only place where I've seen it is mandatory is for
teaching at university institutions. Most of the managers I've had
didn't have PhDs and many didn't even have a Masters degree. Note: I'm
talking about engineering here and not something like an MBA. There
was a survey put out a couple of years ago that said a PhD wasn't cost
effective. In others words the salary you get (and what you would have
earned over 4 years) doesn't make up for the cost of doing a PhD - I
suspect with the ever increasing cost of university tuition that is
even more true now. I think the only way a PhD is cost effective is if
you skip the Masters and just do a PhD - Most universities don't
advertise that you can do this, and a lot of professors don't like it
because they'd like you to produce papers for them for 6 years or they
like to see what you do at a Masters level before committing time and
effort to you at a PhD level.

BTW - In my case after I did my undergrad I went to work for IBM for
16 months on an internship program and then went back to do my
Masters. The only way I'd do a PhD is if a company paid for it.


A couple of other observations I've had:

1) Trying to finish a graduate program part-time is extremely
difficult. I've seen many attempt it - most just drop out.

2) Having some related work experience can help in picking out a good
thesis topic. In some cases it can also help out the company and they
may even help out with some of the cost of the graduate program.
Having the direction before you go into your graduate program is a
definite asset.

3) Once you have a good paying job and more disposable income than
you've probably ever had - it can be difficult to go back to the grad
student lifestyle. Typically your needs and wants tend to grow to meet
your larger income e.g. car, house, vacations, trips etc.

4) Someone else mentioned this, but once you have other commitments
like a wife or children it is challenging to also commit to a PhD. You
spend a lot of time committed to the PhD and less time with the wife
and kids.

Most of the people I've seen with PhDs are over rated. Doing a PhD
tends to focus you on a very specialized area, and you tend to miss
out on a lot of other generalized knowledge.

Hope the info helps.
Cheers,
Dave

julius <juliusk@gmail.com> wrote:

>I agree with Rune. Nobody here can answer your question without
>significant uncertainty. The best you can hope for from posting here
>is to get some help in pointing things out which you may not have
>anticipated yourself.

>In my personal experience, I know quite a few people who promised
>that they would "go back to school" but very very few do. Those who
>do tend to have found work that is very academic-oriented and/or
>research-oriented.

As a datapoint, I finished my undergraduate engnieering degree,
then worked at a design-engineering job for two years, then
went to grad school.

However, there are a couple details to consider. The two-year
span when I was working was not in the middle of a recession
so it was relatively easy to find work. I am not sure that
is true right now. A recession is a good time to stay in school.
Furthermore this was long enough ago that at that time most
entry-level jobs did not require an advanced degree.
I would say this has changed since then.

Good luck to the OP.

Steve

On Sep 3, 10:24*am, Dave <dspg...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 9:47 am, dbell <bellda2...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > You are making the right choice if you do not screw it up by getting
> > in debt, getting married, or otherwise committing your time and money,
> > or losing your motivation to study or your willingness to live a
> > "student" lifestyle, before you get around to finishing it. *I would
> > not recommend graduate school part-time, it takes too long and
> > decreases the chance you will finish. *A PhD (which I do not have)
> > will benefit you your whole life in opportunities that might otherwise
> > be much more difficult to obtain (opportunitities that you are
> > qualified for, and ones you aren't, but will get because of the PhD),
> > and some pay increase (how much depends on if you remain puirely
> > technical or get into management). With a PhD it is easier to get into
> > management if you want that now or later. Get it early in your carreer
> > so you can reap as much of the benefits as possible.
>
> > My comments are based on decades of observations in the work
> > environment.
>
> > Dirk (only an MSEE, and yes I wish I had finished a PhD)
>
> > Fishilicious wrote:
> > > Hi all, I am about to graduate with my master's degree after going straight
> > > to graduate school from college. *I was actually admitted, and intended, to
> > > do a PhD in DSP, but after a year at my current school I realized that this
> > > is not the right PLACE for me. *So now I am thinking of going to work for a
> > > few years to beef up my resume, then applying back to that one schoolthat
> > > I really want to go to. *Am I making the right choice? *Is this even
> > > doable? *I also have little clue to what companies / job titles I should be
> > > looking for. *Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank!
>
> I have to politely disagree with Dirk, I've found there are very few
> places where a PhD is necessary - it does however help to have at
> least a Masters. The only place where I've seen it is mandatory is for
> teaching at university institutions. Most of the managers I've had
> didn't have PhDs and many didn't even have a Masters degree. Note: I'm
> talking about engineering here and not something like an MBA. There
> was a survey put out a couple of years ago that said a PhD wasn't cost
> effective. In others words the salary you get (and what you would have
> earned over 4 years) doesn't make up for the cost of doing a PhD - I
> suspect with the ever increasing cost of university tuition that is
> even more true now. I think the only way a PhD is cost effective is if
> you skip the Masters and just do a PhD - Most universities don't
> advertise that you can do this, and a lot of professors don't like it
> because they'd like you to produce papers for them for 6 years or they
> like to see what you do at a Masters level before committing time and
> effort to you at a PhD level.
>
> BTW - In my case after I did my undergrad I went to work for IBM for
> 16 months on an internship program and then went back to do my
> Masters. The only way I'd do a PhD is if a company paid for it.
>
> A couple of other observations I've had:
>
> 1) Trying to finish a graduate program part-time is extremely
> difficult. I've seen many attempt it - most just drop out.
>
> 2) Having some related work experience can help in picking out a good
> thesis topic. In some cases it can also help out the company and they
> may even help out with some of the cost of the graduate program.
> Having the direction before you go into your graduate program is a
> definite asset.
>
> 3) Once you have a good paying job and more disposable income than
> you've probably ever had - it can be difficult to go back to the grad
> student lifestyle. Typically your needs and wants tend to grow to meet
> your larger income e.g. car, house, vacations, trips etc.
>
> 4) Someone else mentioned this, but once you have other commitments
> like a wife or children it is challenging to also commit to a PhD. You
> spend a lot of time committed to the PhD and less time with the wife
> and kids.
>
> Most of the people I've seen with PhDs are over rated. Doing a PhD
> tends to focus you on a very specialized area, and *you tend to miss
> out on a lot of other generalized knowledge.
>
> Hope the info helps.
> Cheers,
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dave,

I never said it was necessary, but I have seen it open countless
opportunities for people that furthered their career that they would
not have gotten without a PhD. Even if they knew the exact same
material and had the same capabilities, but no PhD, the opportunities
would not have presented themselves in the same way. There seems to be
a management assumption that people with PhD's are good at management
and can work in areas that they have no expertise in. I have witnessed
this over and over and over ... One place I worked for 10+ years, if
you had a PhD you often became an instant manager of people and
projects when you were hired, even if that was not your experience
before. I have never seen any correlation between a PhD and personnel
management abilty (often the opposite). If management is not technical
enough to understand the technical aspects of things, they often look
to the PhDs for answers, even if a lower level person would actually
know more about the technology.

Doing the same job I am doing now, according to the IEEE salary
survey, it would be worth about $10K (US) extra per year, but it is
more likely that with a PhD, I would not be doing the job I am doing
now, I would be doing a higher paying job with the offset being >>
$10K from my present position.

Dirk

On 3 Sep, 18:08, dbell <bellda2...@cox.net> wrote:

> I never said it was necessary, but I have seen it open countless
> opportunities for people that furthered their career that they would
> not have gotten without a PhD. Even if they knew the exact same
> material and had the same capabilities, but no PhD, the opportunities
> would not have presented themselves in the same way.

I would never encourage anyone to go for a PhD degree, and in the
past I have often wondered what one can do with a degree that one
can't do without it.

However, I have been in the position where a project proposal of
mine was met with 'who do *you* think you are to think you can
do what lots of smart people have attmpted and failed?' where my
PhD degree + former affiliations with certain R&D institutions
came in handy.

Not a card to be played too often, but potentially very effective.

Rune

>On 3 Sep, 18:08, dbell <bellda2...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I never said it was necessary, but I have seen it open countless
>> opportunities for people that furthered their career that they would
>> not have gotten without a PhD. Even if they knew the exact same
>> material and had the same capabilities, but no PhD, the opportunities
>> would not have presented themselves in the same way.
>
>I would never encourage anyone to go for a PhD degree, and in the
>past I have often wondered what one can do with a degree that one
>can't do without it.
>
>However, I have been in the position where a project proposal of
>mine was met with 'who do *you* think you are to think you can
>do what lots of smart people have attmpted and failed?' where my
>PhD degree + former affiliations with certain R&D institutions
>came in handy.
>
>Not a card to be played too often, but potentially very effective.
>
>Rune

Wow thanks for all the replies! Well just a couple of things I would like
to add. The reason I don't think this is the right place is primarily one
that is social, same goes for why I wanted to do a PhD to start with. I
wanted to get the degree as a kind of self accomplishment, not because I'm
passionate about the research or want a higher pay. I know this is not a
good reason to do graduate school, but it pretty much carried me through
undergraduate, and now master's.

On a more logical note, I do have the concern that MS will cause me to
eventually hit a glass ceiling. Together with the fact that I still wish
to attend that one school I wanted to since high school, I'm looking to
reapply in a few years. However, PhD isn't the only thing I'm considering.
Now, I don't think I'm fit for management, so the other option from what I
heard would be patent law. But then again, these are all up in the air
right now, need to get a job first.

With all that said, I am clueless as to what kind of job would a MSEE in
DSP would do in the work force. I think my ideal job right now is one that
is research / design oriented, but with the current state of economy, I
probably should just take whatever I can get. I have been searching for
the past few days, and seems like most job postings that require knowledge
in DSP are heavily software related--not something I was hoping for. Just
tossing some of my concerns these days out there, thanks again for all the
great replies!!