Authorization timeout setting : Eudora

I am with a new domain host and their email server seems to have a
very short timeout on the authorization. I have my check rate set to
5 minutes and that is not quick enough to keep the server from
rejecting my sent emails.

When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this. Obviously I am not
using Outlook and they don't seem to be able to help me with Eudora.
Regardless, this seems like some BS to me. This timeout is on the
server. Can the email client really control this setting? If so, how
can I adjust this from Eudora?

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:31:36 -0500, rickman wrote:

> I am with a new domain host and their email server seems to have a
> very short timeout on the authorization. I have my check rate set to
> 5 minutes and that is not quick enough to keep the server from
> rejecting my sent emails.

What do you mean by "check rate"?

If you mean "check mail every five minutes,"
why do you think that affects *sending* mail?

Did the ISP tell you that you have to check mail
just before sending, to authorize yourself for sending?
(this is becoming outdated).

> When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
> there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this. Obviously I am not
> using Outlook and they don't seem to be able to help me with Eudora.
> Regardless, this seems like some BS to me. This timeout is on the
> server. Can the email client really control this setting? If so,
> how can I adjust this from Eudora?

What kind of "authorization" does their SMTP server use?

If by any chance their only authorization for *sending* mail
is that you must first check for new *incoming* mail
using the same login name, then you'll have to check for new
*incoming* mail within the time interval required
(try an extra manual "check for new mail," immediately followed
by sending your outgoing mail, or before "send queued messages")

Eudora will by default try to send queued messages first;
see http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1838hq.html
for how to check mail before attempting to send mail
(press the shift key then click "Check mail")

-[ ]-

On Mar 19, 4:20 pm, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:31:36 -0500, rickman wrote:
> > I am with a new domain host and their email server seems to have a
> > very short timeout on the authorization. I have my check rate set to
> > 5 minutes and that is not quick enough to keep the server from
> > rejecting my sent emails.
>
> What do you mean by "check rate"?
>
> If you mean "check mail every five minutes,"
> why do you think that affects *sending* mail?
>
> Did the ISP tell you that you have to check mail
> just before sending, to authorize yourself for sending?
> (this is becoming outdated).

That is what they are doing, I have to check for received email
shortly before sending. Rather than check every time I want to send,
I have always just been able to have a long enough timeount on the
server that checking for incoming email every 5 minutes was often
enough to always let me send without a check first.


> > When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
> > there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this. Obviously I am not
> > using Outlook and they don't seem to be able to help me with Eudora.
> > Regardless, this seems like some BS to me. This timeout is on the
> > server. Can the email client really control this setting? If so,
> > how can I adjust this from Eudora?
>
> What kind of "authorization" does their SMTP server use?
>
> If by any chance their only authorization for *sending* mail
> is that you must first check for new *incoming* mail
> using the same login name, then you'll have to check for new
> *incoming* mail within the time interval required
> (try an extra manual "check for new mail," immediately followed
> by sending your outgoing mail, or before "send queued messages")

Yeah, that is what I was saying. I don't know the default timeout
interval on the server and my hosting provider is telling me I can set
it through the email client. That is what I am asking about. Does
Eudora provide a way of setting this timeout or is my hosting provider
blowing smoke?

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:44:44 -0500, rickman wrote:

> I have to check for received email
> shortly before sending. Rather than check every time I want to send,
> I have always just been able to have a long enough timeount on the
> server that checking for incoming email every 5 minutes was often
> enough to always let me send without a check first.

> When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
> there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this.

What are their specific instructions for Outlook?

Also, what is the complete error message that Eudora
receives back from the SMTP server?

Does a manual check just before sending currently work?

When you send mail, are you ever inserting a different
"From:" address than the address used for receiving mail?

> I don't know the default timeout interval on the server
> and my hosting provider is telling me I can set it
> through the email client. That is what I am asking about.
> Does Eudora provide a way of setting this timeout
> or is my hosting provider blowing smoke?

There is certainly some misunderstanding on someone's part,
but how can people who don't hear the original conversation
know who is saying what, or understanding what?

You can try checking mail more often, or checking mail manually
immediately before sending, but you can't tell their POP server
how long to remember a login before forgetting it
when the SMTP server asks about it.

Earlier you said that this is a "new domain host";
if you have any other ISP whose mail server you were using
or can still use, then keep using it, since it makes no difference
from where you mail a letter, as long as it gets delivered --
you can live in California and put that as your return address,
even if you mail the letters in New York!

You can even use Gmail (or a subscription SMTP service)
to send out mail; most of those authorize sending mail
via a login to the *SMTP* (outgoing) server, rather than
by remembering logins made to a different, incoming POP server,
during a completely different transaction.

-[ ]-

On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:44:44 -0500, rickman wrote:
> > I have to check for received email
> > shortly before sending. Rather than check every time I want to send,
> > I have always just been able to have a long enough timeount on the
> > server that checking for incoming email every 5 minutes was often
> > enough to always let me send without a check first.
> > When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
> > there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this.
>
> What are their specific instructions for Outlook?

I didn't get any specifics.

> Also, what is the complete error message that Eudora
> receives back from the SMTP server?

"553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
(#5.7.1)"

My understanding is that this is the error message that indicates that
you need to check email shortly before sending it. I never had this
with my old hosting provider so I assume that the timeout can be
changed. They both use the same software for setting up hosting
accounts, Plesk. I don't know if that includes the email server or
not. So I guess they could be using different software which has
different default timeouts.


> Does a manual check just before sending currently work?

Yes. That is how I get my email. I have some friends who I host
accounts for and I have not had any complaints from them yet, but I
was hoping to have a simple answer other than, "check it each time
before you send".


> When you send mail, are you ever inserting a different
> "From:" address than the address used for receiving mail?

I have multiple email addresses that are funneled through two
mailboxes on the incoming end by redirection.


> > I don't know the default timeout interval on the server
> > and my hosting provider is telling me I can set it
> > through the email client. That is what I am asking about.
> > Does Eudora provide a way of setting this timeout
> > or is my hosting provider blowing smoke?
>
> You can try checking mail more often, or checking mail manually
> immediately before sending, but you can't tell their POP server
> how long to remember a login before forgetting it
> when the SMTP server asks about it.

That is what I expected, but the hosting support is telling me
differently.


> Earlier you said that this is a "new domain host";
> if you have any other ISP whose mail server you were using
> or can still use, then keep using it, since it makes no difference
> from where you mail a letter, as long as it gets delivered --
> you can live in California and put that as your return address,
> even if you mail the letters in New York!

If I had a different server I could use, I would be using it.


> You can even use Gmail (or a subscription SMTP service)
> to send out mail; most of those authorize sending mail
> via a login to the *SMTP* (outgoing) server, rather than
> by remembering logins made to a different, incoming POP server,
> during a completely different transaction.

Thanks for the suggesting. If I can't get this to work better, I will
look into that.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:28:03 -0500, rickman wrote:

>> What are their specific instructions for Outlook?
>
> I didn't get any specifics.

Well, getting that answer might be the only way to fathom
what they are talking about; whenever anyone says
"we don't support Eudora," I suggest asking for the
specific directions for whatever client they do support,
as that's the only way to get the necessary information
out of them, which then can be translated (in most cases)
to a Eudora equivalent.

>> Also, what is the complete error message that Eudora
>> receives back from the SMTP server?
>
> "553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
> (#5.7.1)"

> My understanding is that this is the error message that indicates
> that you need to check email shortly before sending it.

That's what they tell you?

It's a common "qmail" message, fully explained at
http://www.palomine.net/qmail/relaying.html

See this for an interesting case of that message:
http://www.xtreeme.com/forum/archive...domain-is.html

Here's more from the company selling "Plesk" server software:
http://forum.swsoft.com/showthread.php?threadid=34324
(ask your hosting company why they don't use SMTP authentication instead).

> I never had this with my old hosting provider so I assume that the timeout
> can be changed. They both use the same software for setting up hosting
> accounts, Plesk. I don't know if that includes the email server or
> not. So I guess they could be using different software which has
> different default timeouts.

Most server software allows the server operator to define parameters
such as timeouts, just as you can adjust timeout values within Eudora
(relating to how long to keep trying something locally before giving up,
not to set time limits on someone else's remote server).

Do they by any chance let *you* control your own SMTP server,
using your own "Control Panel"? That would be the only way
I can think of that gives you the ability to make these settings yourself.

>> Does a manual check just before sending currently work?
>
> Yes. That is how I get my email. I have some friends who I host
> accounts for and I have not had any complaints from them yet, but I
> was hoping to have a simple answer other than, "check it each time
> before you send".

If it always works when you check mail just before sending,
and never works when you are checking mail every five minutes,
then one might conclude that it does not retain your
POP connection info for even as long as five minutes
(why can't they tell you how long it is? -- or is it
something you can set via your own domain's control panel?)

You could of course experiment with various intervals,
until you narrow down yourself just how long
the current expiration interval must be.

>> When you send mail, are you ever inserting a different
>> "From:" address than the address used for receiving mail?
>
> I have multiple email addresses that are funneled through
> two mailboxes on the incoming end by redirection.

I can't make out the answer from that; what I'm trying to get at is,
how does the SMTP server know who you are, to match that up
with knowing who recently logged in using POP?

A POP login usually identifies just a user name (but some servers
want a complete email address, in case they serve multiple domains);
do you specify only a login name, or a complete address in Eudora,
under "Checking mail" > "User name"?

And then, does "Sending mail" specify "allow authentication"?
If the "From:" address of an outgoing email is all that there is
to match by, then the use of different "From:" addresses
might result in some being recognized, and others not;
if that's the problem, however, then it should remain a problem,
even if you check POP mail just before sending,
unless you are checking several different POP accounts,
each one having its own different login, to match with
an outgoing "From:" address.

>> You can try checking mail more often, or checking mail manually
>> immediately before sending, but you can't tell their POP server
>> how long to remember a login before forgetting it
>> when the SMTP server asks about it.
>
> That is what I expected, but the hosting support is telling me
> differently.

Unless they tell you *how* to do something, they are telling you
nothing -- ask them exactly *how* to do it using Outlook,
given that they claim it can be done in Outlook,
and then we might see what the heck they are talking about.

Or if it's via your "control panel," then that's entirely
apart from either Outlook or Eudora.

> If I had a different server I could use, I would be using it.

How do you connect your own computer to the internet
in the first place, to contact your hosting company?

Don't you get email services from that ISP,
including an SMTP server, using which
you can send email to anyone, anywhere?

-[ ]-

On Mar 20, 2:42 am, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:28:03 -0500, rickman wrote:
> >> What are their specific instructions for Outlook?

Ok, I asked and this is what they say...

In Outlook:


Tools > Email Accounts > View/change exisiting accounts > Select your
email account > Click change > More Settings > Advanced > Increase/
decrease timeout under "Server Timeouts"


> > "553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
> > (#5.7.1)"
> > My understanding is that this is the error message that indicates
> > that you need to check email shortly before sending it.
>
> That's what they tell you?
>
> It's a common "qmail" message, fully explained athttp://www.palomine.net/qmail/relaying.html
>
> See this for an interesting case of that message:http://www.xtreeme.com/forum/archive...-and-quotno-va...
>
> Here's more from the company selling "Plesk" server software:http://forum.swsoft.com/showthread.php?threadid=34324
> (ask your hosting company why they don't use SMTP authentication instead).

The info is interesting, but that just confirms what my hosting vendor
is telling me. They are using the POP login to validate the SMTP
transfer for a limited time after the POP. Now I need to figure out
how to change that timeout.


> Most server software allows the server operator to define parameters
> such as timeouts, just as you can adjust timeout values within Eudora
> (relating to how long to keep trying something locally before giving up,
> not to set time limits on someone else's remote server).
>
> Do they by any chance let *you* control your own SMTP server,
> using your own "Control Panel"? That would be the only way
> I can think of that gives you the ability to make these settings yourself.

That would be ideal, but I looked high and low as the first step and
did not find a timeout control.


> If it always works when you check mail just before sending,
> and never works when you are checking mail every five minutes,
> then one might conclude that it does not retain your
> POP connection info for even as long as five minutes
> (why can't they tell you how long it is? -- or is it
> something you can set via your own domain's control panel?)
>
> You could of course experiment with various intervals,
> until you narrow down yourself just how long
> the current expiration interval must be.

Yes, I am aware of all that. I am not looking to conduct experiments,
I am looking for a control to adjust the timeout.


> > I have multiple email addresses that are funneled through
> > two mailboxes on the incoming end by redirection.
>
> I can't make out the answer from that; what I'm trying to get at is,
> how does the SMTP server know who you are, to match that up
> with knowing who recently logged in using POP?
>
> A POP login usually identifies just a user name (but some servers
> want a complete email address, in case they serve multiple domains);
> do you specify only a login name, or a complete address in Eudora,
> under "Checking mail" > "User name"?

I specify the login names in the personalities that get checked for
incoming mail. I have two incoming addresses and many outgoing
addresses. I'm not sure why you are asking about this. I think this
is making the issue more complex than it really is. But then maybe
there are some features in Eudora I don't know enough about. For
example, there is a setting called "use relay personality". What does
that do?


> And then, does "Sending mail" specify "allow authentication"?
> If the "From:" address of an outgoing email is all that there is
> to match by, then the use of different "From:" addresses
> might result in some being recognized, and others not;
> if that's the problem, however, then it should remain a problem,
> even if you check POP mail just before sending,
> unless you are checking several different POP accounts,
> each one having its own different login, to match with
> an outgoing "From:" address.

There is no one to one match. I have a number of email addresses I
use, mostly to keep track of web addresses I give email addresses out
to. Each one gets their own custom address. Then when I get spam to
an address, I know who is sharing their address list.

I can't say that every address has shown a failure, many of them get
used very little. But the ones I am using frequently seem to all be
failing when they used to work. Checking email before sending seems
to deal with it, but I wish to not have to do that.



> > If I had a different server I could use, I would be using it.
>
> How do you connect your own computer to the internet
> in the first place, to contact your hosting company?
>
> Don't you get email services from that ISP,
> including an SMTP server, using which
> you can send email to anyone, anywhere?

Using that with multiple "from" addresses opens other cans of worms,
not to mention the work of changing all the personalities each time I
change ISP. That is not an option.

"rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>The info is interesting, but that just confirms what my hosting vendor
>is telling me. They are using the POP login to validate the SMTP
>transfer for a limited time after the POP. Now I need to figure out
>how to change that timeout.

You can't change it. It isn't a parameter you can set in Eudora or any
other email client. It is a parameter that your ISP sets for their
service.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, you need to hold the shift key
down when you do a check mail in Eudora in order to get it to do
"check before send". If you do that then you shouldn't have any
problems.

"rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174350483.287419.217530@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:44:44 -0500, rickman wrote:
>> > I have to check for received email
>> > shortly before sending. Rather than check every time I want to send,
>> > I have always just been able to have a long enough timeount on the
>> > server that checking for incoming email every 5 minutes was often
>> > enough to always let me send without a check first.
>> > When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
>> > there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this.
>>
>> What are their specific instructions for Outlook?
>
> I didn't get any specifics.
>
>> Also, what is the complete error message that Eudora
>> receives back from the SMTP server?
>
> "553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
> (#5.7.1)"
>
> My understanding is that this is the error message that indicates that
> you need to check email shortly before sending it. I never had this
> with my old hosting provider so I assume that the timeout can be
> changed. They both use the same software for setting up hosting
> accounts, Plesk. I don't know if that includes the email server or
> not. So I guess they could be using different software which has
> different default timeouts.
>
>
>> Does a manual check just before sending currently work?
>
> Yes. That is how I get my email. I have some friends who I host
> accounts for and I have not had any complaints from them yet, but I
> was hoping to have a simple answer other than, "check it each time
> before you send".
>
>
>> When you send mail, are you ever inserting a different
>> "From:" address than the address used for receiving mail?
>
> I have multiple email addresses that are funneled through two
> mailboxes on the incoming end by redirection.
>
>
>> > I don't know the default timeout interval on the server
>> > and my hosting provider is telling me I can set it
>> > through the email client. That is what I am asking about.
>> > Does Eudora provide a way of setting this timeout
>> > or is my hosting provider blowing smoke?
>>
>> You can try checking mail more often, or checking mail manually
>> immediately before sending, but you can't tell their POP server
>> how long to remember a login before forgetting it
>> when the SMTP server asks about it.
>
> That is what I expected, but the hosting support is telling me
> differently.
>
>
>> Earlier you said that this is a "new domain host";
>> if you have any other ISP whose mail server you were using
>> or can still use, then keep using it, since it makes no difference
>> from where you mail a letter, as long as it gets delivered --
>> you can live in California and put that as your return address,
>> even if you mail the letters in New York!
>
> If I had a different server I could use, I would be using it.
>
>
>> You can even use Gmail (or a subscription SMTP service)
>> to send out mail; most of those authorize sending mail
>> via a login to the *SMTP* (outgoing) server, rather than
>> by remembering logins made to a different, incoming POP server,
>> during a completely different transaction.
>
> Thanks for the suggesting. If I can't get this to work better, I will
> look into that.
553 is an authentication error. Do you have that checked?

On Mar 20, 2:27 pm, "nospam" <nos...@nospaml.com> wrote:
> "rickman" <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1174350483.287419.217530@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:44:44 -0500, rickman wrote:
> >> > I have to check for received email
> >> > shortly before sending. Rather than check every time I want to send,
> >> > I have always just been able to have a long enough timeount on the
> >> > server that checking for incoming email every 5 minutes was often
> >> > enough to always let me send without a check first.
> >> > When I tried to contact the provider about this they tell me that
> >> > there is a setting in "Outlook" to control this.
>
> >> What are their specific instructions for Outlook?
>
> > I didn't get any specifics.
>
> >> Also, what is the complete error message that Eudora
> >> receives back from the SMTP server?
>
> > "553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
> > (#5.7.1)"
>
> > My understanding is that this is the error message that indicates that
> > you need to check email shortly before sending it. I never had this
> > with my old hosting provider so I assume that the timeout can be
> > changed. They both use the same software for setting up hosting
> > accounts, Plesk. I don't know if that includes the email server or
> > not. So I guess they could be using different software which has
> > different default timeouts.
>
> >> Does a manual check just before sending currently work?
>
> > Yes. That is how I get my email. I have some friends who I host
> > accounts for and I have not had any complaints from them yet, but I
> > was hoping to have a simple answer other than, "check it each time
> > before you send".
>
> >> When you send mail, are you ever inserting a different
> >> "From:" address than the address used for receiving mail?
>
> > I have multiple email addresses that are funneled through two
> > mailboxes on the incoming end by redirection.
>
> >> > I don't know the default timeout interval on the server
> >> > and my hosting provider is telling me I can set it
> >> > through the email client. That is what I am asking about.
> >> > Does Eudora provide a way of setting this timeout
> >> > or is my hosting provider blowing smoke?
>
> >> You can try checking mail more often, or checking mail manually
> >> immediately before sending, but you can't tell their POP server
> >> how long to remember a login before forgetting it
> >> when the SMTP server asks about it.
>
> > That is what I expected, but the hosting support is telling me
> > differently.
>
> >> Earlier you said that this is a "new domain host";
> >> if you have any other ISP whose mail server you were using
> >> or can still use, then keep using it, since it makes no difference
> >> from where you mail a letter, as long as it gets delivered --
> >> you can live in California and put that as your return address,
> >> even if you mail the letters in New York!
>
> > If I had a different server I could use, I would be using it.
>
> >> You can even use Gmail (or a subscription SMTP service)
> >> to send out mail; most of those authorize sending mail
> >> via a login to the *SMTP* (outgoing) server, rather than
> >> by remembering logins made to a different, incoming POP server,
> >> during a completely different transaction.
>
> > Thanks for the suggesting. If I can't get this to work better, I will
> > look into that.
>
> 553 is an authentication error. Do you have that checked?


Yes, I have authentication checked. I don't have "use relay
personality" checked. Can you explain what that is?