Any ideas why my new RAM won't work?

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:43:02 GMT,
nurse.abbatoirXYZ@btinternetXYZ.com (David) wrote:

>>It might help if you told us the motherboard make, model, or
>>at least the northbridge chipset it uses, and what processor
>>you have installed since that effects whether you actually
>>need PC133 or could use PC100.
>>
>>Generally low density PC133 memory is rare these days, most
>>is labeled PC100 even if it could do 133MHz to strangely
>>denote compatibility with the typical systems that need low
>>density memory because most were only using up to 100MHz
>>memory bus speed.
>>
>>What make and model of memory is this? Can you tell if
>>there are original memory chip manufacturer's chip codes on
>>the individual chips themselves, and if so then posting what
>>those are might help someone determine more about the
>>memory.
>
>Thanks again for the comments. (Btw, the whole lost cost me about 30
>GBP / 605 USD, but I'm not too uptight about the cost - put it this
>way, I've invested and wasted much more in PC matters in the past!)
>
>I am a complete layman at this, so talk of (eg) northbridge is a bit
>technical for me! I'm not even 100% sure what is meant by chip. If you
>mean those black blocks, then they all have 8, just on one side. I
>don't think I've ever (personally) come across any ram module that
>wasn't, so that's news to me too.
>
>I've hunted for the type (Kingston KTD-DM133) on the net, but again,
>not one reference mentioned the density.
>
>As for the motherboard, my little (not-as-reliable-now-as-I-thought)
>program says it is:-
>
>Intel SE440BX-2
>Version AA720940-208
>Serial GTS285050866
>
>As I said earlier though, the online manual for SE440BX-2 did not
>mention density (as far as I could see anyway).
>
>David

Your memory is higher density than your motherboard, with
Intel 440BX chipset, supports. It will accept up to 256MB
per slot and 768MB total with 3 slots.

Since your motherboard does not support 133MHz memory bus,
you do not need PC133 memory and should buy PC100 instead.
While some PC133 memory will work, becauses there was a
brief period when most PC133 was low density, today the low
density PC133 memory is rare and no less expensive than the
PC100 low density type.

As mentioned previously, practically all reputable sellers
now most frequently use the term PC100 to denote the lower
density that your system needs. It will cost nearly twice
as much because being lower density it uses twice the number
of chips to achieve 256MB.

I suggest you seek a refund for this memory if possible and
consider whether it is worth the cost to upgrade the memory
when the money can be put towards replacement. At this
point the system is about 10 years old and while your
SE440BX motherboard was very good quality for it's time,
nothing lasts forever. At this point you may find parts
like the power supply or others are nearing the end of their
lifespan, again increasing cost, money that could be applied
towards a new system that you could more likely expect to
get another 10 years out of.

David wrote:
>
> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:06:13 -0600, Ken <ken@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >You should download the complete manual on your MB if you have not
> >already done so. Some MBs will not accept what is called high density
> >RAM. That is determined most often by how many ICs are on each stick.
> >This could be your problem. Get all the info possible before coming to
> >any conclusions.
>
> Thanks to all those who responded. Taking it back to the shop is a
> last alternative, as I didn't buy them in my own town, and it's a bit
> tricky getting back. But that's by the by. This concept of high and
> low density is completely new to me, and I thought I'd make this my
> first avenue of investigation.
>
> I found from the internet the LOW is 64x8 and HIGH is 128x8. I don't
> understand how these figures related to 256, but ignoring that for the
> moment, it rung a bell. I HAVE seen (eg) 64x8 mentioned on an (old)
> ram stick before, in amongst all the various serial nos. on the
> sticker (sometimes several stickers!)
>
> Unfortunately there is no such indication on these new sticks. I've
> also spent a good half an hour browsing the net with the serial
> number, and yes, I found dozens and dozens of references (usually from
> shops!) but whilst they all said SDRAM, PC133 etc., not one single
> person mentioned if it was a high or low density item.
>
> I'm feeling right now that they must be high, and that my motherboard
> does not cater for them (will start my search for a manual to confirm
> that shortly) but all the same, I'd love to know if there is any other
> way I can tell high from low? (In case I ever buy ram in the future,
> new or used, and it doesn't say which).

High density and low density are relative terms. A chip that was considered high density a few years ago is now considered low density. A rule of thumb is a DIMM with 8 chips is considered low density (relative to the motherboard) and a DIMM with 4 or 2 chips is high density.

--
Mike Walsh

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:26:25 -0400, kony thoughfully wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 19:52:31 GMT, jaster <jaster@home.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>You paid $200US for 3-256 PC133? versus $90US for motherboard/cpu
>>>>combo and $40US 2GB DDR.
>>>
>>> Maybe my eyes are going bad but where did he write that he'd paid
>>> $200? 256MB/PC133 is about $15 a module, maybe a little more in retail
>>> stores.
>>
>>How much in tax and shipping for the original? If he bought them
>>online, return shipping is ??? If the replacements don't work that's how
>>much more in shipping plus tax?
>>
>>Bottom line, it doesn't matter how much he paid the memory doesn't work!
>
> Buying online usually saves a significant amount of money even
> considering the odds that a small percentage of that savings would
> eventually be used to return something to the seller.
>
>
> Everyone who regularly deals with computer hardware accepts that sooner
> or later (Or all the time) something will have to be returned to the
> seller. What's the other alternative? Having to drive to the brick and
> mortar store which costs more time, gasoline and vehicle wear.

Where I buy my components I get 14 days for cpu and memory and 30 days no
question return policy. And prices are usually better than the best
NewEgg price.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:05:38 -0400, kony thoughfully wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:43:02 GMT,
> nurse.abbatoirXYZ@btinternetXYZ.com (David) wrote:
>
>>>It might help if you told us the motherboard make, model, or at least
>>>the northbridge chipset it uses, and what processor you have installed
>>>since that effects whether you actually need PC133 or could use PC100.
>>>
>>>Generally low density PC133 memory is rare these days, most is labeled
>>>PC100 even if it could do 133MHz to strangely denote compatibility with
>>>the typical systems that need low density memory because most were only
>>>using up to 100MHz memory bus speed.
>>>
>>>What make and model of memory is this? Can you tell if there are
>>>original memory chip manufacturer's chip codes on the individual chips
>>>themselves, and if so then posting what those are might help someone
>>>determine more about the memory.
>>
>>Thanks again for the comments. (Btw, the whole lost cost me about 30 GBP
>>/ 605 USD, but I'm not too uptight about the cost - put it this way,
>>I've invested and wasted much more in PC matters in the past!)
>>
>>I am a complete layman at this, so talk of (eg) northbridge is a bit
>>technical for me! I'm not even 100% sure what is meant by chip. If you
>>mean those black blocks, then they all have 8, just on one side. I don't
>>think I've ever (personally) come across any ram module that wasn't, so
>>that's news to me too.
>>
>>I've hunted for the type (Kingston KTD-DM133) on the net, but again, not
>>one reference mentioned the density.
>>
>>As for the motherboard, my little (not-as-reliable-now-as-I-thought)
>>program says it is:-
>>
>>Intel SE440BX-2
>>Version AA720940-208
>>Serial GTS285050866
>>
>>As I said earlier though, the online manual for SE440BX-2 did not
>>mention density (as far as I could see anyway).
>>
>>David
>
> Your memory is higher density than your motherboard, with Intel 440BX
> chipset, supports. It will accept up to 256MB per slot and 768MB total
> with 3 slots.
>
> Since your motherboard does not support 133MHz memory bus, you do not
> need PC133 memory and should buy PC100 instead. While some PC133 memory
> will work, becauses there was a brief period when most PC133 was low
> density, today the low density PC133 memory is rare and no less
> expensive than the PC100 low density type.
>
> As mentioned previously, practically all reputable sellers now most
> frequently use the term PC100 to denote the lower density that your
> system needs. It will cost nearly twice as much because being lower
> density it uses twice the number of chips to achieve 256MB.
>
> I suggest you seek a refund for this memory if possible and consider
> whether it is worth the cost to upgrade the memory when the money can be
> put towards replacement. At this point the system is about 10 years old
> and while your SE440BX motherboard was very good quality for it's time,
> nothing lasts forever. At this point you may find parts like the power
> supply or others are nearing the end of their lifespan, again increasing
> cost, money that could be applied towards a new system that you could
> more likely expect to get another 10 years out of.

Wasn't that what I said???

The OP should open a Return Merchandise Ticket with Kingston Memory
support to exchange the PC133 for PC100. Their memory is guaranteed and
they should be able to provide working PC100 256 memory if he specifies
the correct motherboard manufacturer and model (SE440BX-2).

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:27:01 -0400, Mike Walsh thoughfully wrote:

> David wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:06:13 -0600, Ken <ken@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> >You should download the complete manual on your MB if you have not
>> >already done so. Some MBs will not accept what is called high density
>> >RAM. That is determined most often by how many ICs are on each stick.
>> >This could be your problem. Get all the info possible before coming
>> >to any conclusions.
>>
>> Thanks to all those who responded. Taking it back to the shop is a last
>> alternative, as I didn't buy them in my own town, and it's a bit tricky
>> getting back. But that's by the by. This concept of high and low
>> density is completely new to me, and I thought I'd make this my first
>> avenue of investigation.
>>
>> I found from the internet the LOW is 64x8 and HIGH is 128x8. I don't
>> understand how these figures related to 256, but ignoring that for the
>> moment, it rung a bell. I HAVE seen (eg) 64x8 mentioned on an (old) ram
>> stick before, in amongst all the various serial nos. on the sticker
>> (sometimes several stickers!)
>>
>> Unfortunately there is no such indication on these new sticks. I've
>> also spent a good half an hour browsing the net with the serial number,
>> and yes, I found dozens and dozens of references (usually from shops!)
>> but whilst they all said SDRAM, PC133 etc., not one single person
>> mentioned if it was a high or low density item.
>>
>> I'm feeling right now that they must be high, and that my motherboard
>> does not cater for them (will start my search for a manual to confirm
>> that shortly) but all the same, I'd love to know if there is any other
>> way I can tell high from low? (In case I ever buy ram in the future,
>> new or used, and it doesn't say which).
>
> High density and low density are relative terms. A chip that was
> considered high density a few years ago is now considered low density. A
> rule of thumb is a DIMM with 8 chips is considered low density (relative
> to the motherboard) and a DIMM with 4 or 2 chips is high density.

Number of chips does not indicate density.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:56:39 GMT, jaster <jaster@home.net>
wrote:


>> Buying online usually saves a significant amount of money even
>> considering the odds that a small percentage of that savings would
>> eventually be used to return something to the seller.
>>
>>
>> Everyone who regularly deals with computer hardware accepts that sooner
>> or later (Or all the time) something will have to be returned to the
>> seller. What's the other alternative? Having to drive to the brick and
>> mortar store which costs more time, gasoline and vehicle wear.
>
>Where I buy my components I get 14 days for cpu and memory and 30 days no
>question return policy. And prices are usually better than the best
>NewEgg price.

Great, but if you don't tell us where you buy your
components then what good is it to know this?

If it's a local store, can we come live with you?

David wrote:
>
> As for the motherboard, my little (not-as-reliable-now-as-I-thought)
> program says it is:-
>
> Intel SE440BX-2
> Version AA720940-208
> Serial GTS285050866
>

How did you get that info printed out? I recently bought a Dell
Inspiron 530, and I haven't been able to find out the make and model
number of my motherboard...I would REALLY like to have that info, and
the manual that goes with it.

Mike Fontenot

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:27:01 -0400, Mike Walsh
<spam_sucks@bellsouth.net> wrote:


>> I'm feeling right now that they must be high, and that my motherboard
>> does not cater for them (will start my search for a manual to confirm
>> that shortly) but all the same, I'd love to know if there is any other
>> way I can tell high from low? (In case I ever buy ram in the future,
>> new or used, and it doesn't say which).
>
>High density and low density are relative terms. A chip that was
> considered high density a few years ago is now considered low density.

Agreed, chip density continued to climb and newer chipsets
continued to support that. Whether it was 66MHz, PC100,
133, DDR, DDR2, etc, were separate divisions occuring
concurrent to this perpetual density doubling over time.


> A rule of thumb is a DIMM with 8 chips is considered low density
>(relative to the motherboard) and a DIMM with 4 or 2 chips is high density.

Not necessarily, in this case with PC133 his 256MB modules
have 8 chips. I have 128MB high density PC133 with 4 chips.

Generally, except for notebook SO-DIMMs it is becoming rare
for much volume of memory to be made that doesn't at least
take up the entirely of one side of the PCB... meaning 8
chips or 16. They certainly could make it with 4 but it
doesn't sell so well since all the inherant manufacturing,
distribution, and every other overhead still has to be paid
for so the result is doubling the module capacity from 4
chips to 8 can be a single digit # of dollars difference.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:37:31 -0600, Mike Fontenot
<mlfasf@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>David wrote:
>>
>> As for the motherboard, my little (not-as-reliable-now-as-I-thought)
>> program says it is:-
>>
>> Intel SE440BX-2
>> Version AA720940-208
>> Serial GTS285050866
>>
>
>How did you get that info printed out? I recently bought a Dell
>Inspiron 530, and I haven't been able to find out the make and model
>number of my motherboard...I would REALLY like to have that info, and
>the manual that goes with it.
>
> Mike Fontenot

Back then, things were easier IMO. SE440BX & rev.-2 was one
of the most popular OEM motherboards.

However, today we have Google, which found wikipedia, which
claims:

"When ordered with an Intel Q6600 Core 2 Quad processor, the
530 is equipped with a FoxConn G33m03 motherboard and a
LiteOn 375W power supply. When ordered in any other
configuration, the 530 is typically equipped with a FoxConn
G33m02 motherboard and a 300W Bestec power supply. The
G33m02 and G33m03 are essentially identical except for the
power regulation section of the motherboard. Essentially,
the G33m02 is a depopulated (cheaper) version of the board
which only has 6 voltage regulator IC's as opposed to the 11
voltage regulators on the G33m03. In practice, this means
that the G33m02 version of the motherboard is physically
incapable of providing enough current to operate the Intel
Q6600 CPU. In essence, if you do not order the Quad Core
processor with the system initially, you will NOT be able to
upgrade it to one later."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron

So if that's correct, then your board should look at least a
little like the following (though cosmetic things like
heatsinks or color might differ),
http://www.foxconnchannel.com/produc...D=en-us0000319

IMO, pretty sneaky of Dell to change both motherboard and
power supply based on which processor is installed, if the
above is true.

Many thanks, Kony. That was EXACTLY the information I needed. My
Inspiron user's manual is consistent with what you said, including a
warning about the motherboards being different for the quad-cpu versions
compared with all the other versions. My user's manual also says that
the non-quad versions have a 300w power supply, and the quad versions
have a 350w supply (a little less than the 375w supply in wiki)...Dell
had told me that I had a 350w supply, but I think that was probably bad
info, unless the user's manual is out of date.

The only downer in that link was that the FoxConn downloadable manual
looks like it has been compressed onto two pdf pages of microfilm, and
is almost illegible on my wife's MAC. But I've got an email into
FoxConn, and I might get my questions answered that way.

Thanks again for your help.

Mike Fontenot


kony wrote:
>
> "When ordered with an Intel Q6600 Core 2 Quad processor, the
> 530 is equipped with a FoxConn G33m03 motherboard and a
> LiteOn 375W power supply. When ordered in any other
> configuration, the 530 is typically equipped with a FoxConn
> G33m02 motherboard and a 300W Bestec power supply. The
> G33m02 and G33m03 are essentially identical except for the
> power regulation section of the motherboard. Essentially,
> the G33m02 is a depopulated (cheaper) version of the board
> which only has 6 voltage regulator IC's as opposed to the 11
> voltage regulators on the G33m03. In practice, this means
> that the G33m02 version of the motherboard is physically
> incapable of providing enough current to operate the Intel
> Q6600 CPU. In essence, if you do not order the Quad Core
> processor with the system initially, you will NOT be able to
> upgrade it to one later."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron
>
> So if that's correct, then your board should look at least a
> little like the following (though cosmetic things like
> heatsinks or color might differ),
> http://www.foxconnchannel.com/produc...D=en-us0000319
>
> IMO, pretty sneaky of Dell to change both motherboard and
> power supply based on which processor is installed, if the
> above is true.