OT: electronic locks

Can anyone give me some pointers on replacing my external house doors
Yale-type locks with an electronic equivalent? Needs to have
mechanical over-ride, be insurance-friendly and bonus points for
having proximity-based keys. I'd love to have a passive RF token in
my wallet and just walk up to the door and have it be unlocked.
Do these exist in a form that's economical for 2 external doors? I've
seen some standalone combination/finger print locks for doors but they
don't look like they'd stand up to physical abuse...

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:03:19 -0700, Ric wrote:

> Can anyone give me some pointers on replacing my external house doors
> Yale-type locks with an electronic equivalent? Needs to have mechanical
> over-ride, be insurance-friendly and bonus points for having
> proximity-based keys. I'd love to have a passive RF token in my wallet
> and just walk up to the door and have it be unlocked. Do these exist in
> a form that's economical for 2 external doors? I've seen some
> standalone combination/finger print locks for doors but they don't look
> like they'd stand up to physical abuse...

I would avoid RF for this as it is fairly simple to hack even the passive
RFID type locks. There were discussions of this here many months ago
which included several links to articles documenting the security
problems.

IR operated locks are another matter in that the bad guys would have to
be in very close proximity (and in the line of sight between keyfob and
lock) to intercept the IR signal. I used this affordable one for a couple
of years. The lock hardware held up well.

http://www.smarthome.com/5180n.html

dlh <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

>I would avoid RF for this as it is fairly simple to hack even the passive
>RFID type locks. There were discussions of this here many months ago
>which included several links to articles documenting the security
>problems.

You have to put this in perspective. What are the chances of someone
actually doing this versus picking a mechanical lock? Or using a crow
bar? Or going in through a window?

Doug

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:08:39 -0300, Doug Meredith wrote:

> dlh <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>I would avoid RF for this as it is fairly simple to hack even the
>>passive RFID type locks. There were discussions of this here many months
>>ago which included several links to articles documenting the security
>>problems.
>
> You have to put this in perspective. What are the chances of someone
> actually doing this versus picking a mechanical lock? Or using a crow
> bar? Or going in through a window?

None of which will give an insurance company an out like using an RF lock
when there are known and published vulnerabilities.

The current Defcon hullabaloo over the Boston subway system is another
case of passive RFID devices that are easy to hack. Perhaps the OP should
just take a cue from the MBTA and get an injunction against burglars.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2327898,00.asp

"dlh" wrote:
>
>> You have to put this in perspective. What are the chances of someone
>> actually doing this versus picking a mechanical lock? Or using a crow
>> bar? Or going in through a window?

Agreed. Although it is possible to circumvent an RF controlled lock it's
usually far easier to just smash a window or kick the door in.

> None of which will give an insurance company an out like using an RF lock
> when there are known and published vulnerabilities.

That is a misconception about homeowner's insurance policies. No normal
policies have clauses that allow the insurer to avoid paying because the lock
was picked, with or without RF.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>

> Agreed. Although it is possible to circumvent an RF controlled lock it's
> usually far easier to just smash a window or kick the door in.
>

And just like I tell a new customer when I feel the need arises.

"I have a key to your house right out there in my van which also works on
every house in the neighborhood."

Have a good day.

Les

Robert L Bass wrote:
> "dlh" wrote:
>>
>>> You have to put this in perspective. What are the chances of someone
>>> actually doing this versus picking a mechanical lock? Or using a crow
>>> bar? Or going in through a window?
>
> Agreed. Although it is possible to circumvent an RF controlled lock
> it's usually far easier to just smash a window or kick the door in.

I'd really like to see anyone try to "circumvent an RF controlled lock"
(of the type we service). Perhaps a "Government Agency" like the NSA
would have the technology to do this... but the run-of-the-mill junkie
looking for a fast buck doesn't have access to the kind of technology
required.


>
>> None of which will give an insurance company an out like using an RF lock
>> when there are known and published vulnerabilities.
>
> That is a misconception about homeowner's insurance policies. No normal
> policies have clauses that allow the insurer to avoid paying because the
> lock was picked, with or without RF.

That's actually a "gross misconception". There isn't a professional
grade electronic lock out there that could be easily circumvented (to my
knowledge). However... If someone *did* manage to find a way, most
insurers are looking for "signs" of physical tampering (or an actual
break-in) to prove that the insured actually locked the door. In a very
recent case I'm personally aware of, ICBC (Insurance Corporation of BC)
denied a claim to a lady living in a strata complex because she left her
car doors "unlocked" because she was tired of having to pay for the
deductible on all the broken windows.

> but the run-of-the-mill junkie looking for a fast buck doesn't have
> access to the kind of technology required.

No, they'll just kick in a door or window. Won't matter what sort of lock
is on it.

Bill Kearney wrote:
>> but the run-of-the-mill junkie looking for a fast buck doesn't have
>> access to the kind of technology required.
>
> No, they'll just kick in a door or window. Won't matter what sort of
> lock is on it.
>


Exactly!!! Which is why the 18 Terawatt Laser pointed at the front door
is your best defense (as well as a good alternative to that pesky
siren). You'll come home to a small pile of "ash" on the front stoop,
sweep it up and put it on the roses in the Spring... :-)