Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Hi,

IMAP doesn't specify a reserved name for the 'Sent' mailbox like 'INBOX'
for the inbox, am I right?
Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use LSUB
and some heuristics to identify it?

Thanks in advance
Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:12:26 +0200, Timo Kunze wrote:

> IMAP doesn't specify a reserved name for the 'Sent' mailbox like 'INBOX'
> for the inbox, am I right?
> Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use LSUB
> and some heuristics to identify it?

Most clients just use a default built-in name ("Sent Messages" is
somewhat common) and let the user change it.

Timo Kunze writes:

> Hi,
>
> IMAP doesn't specify a reserved name for the 'Sent' mailbox like 'INBOX'
> for the inbox, am I right?

Correct.

> Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use LSUB
> and some heuristics to identify it?

LSUB may not necessarily show all available mailboxes, you have to use LIST.
Furthermore, it's simpler to just set the mailbox as a manual configuration
parameter. No heuristics will get it right 100% of the time.


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Sam schrieb:
>> Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use
>> LSUB and some heuristics to identify it?
>
> LSUB may not necessarily show all available mailboxes, you have to use
> LIST.
Many thanks for this hint, I'll change my implementation.

> Furthermore, it's simpler to just set the mailbox as a manual
> configuration parameter. No heuristics will get it right 100% of the time.
That's right. However, it's not my decision, or better: not mine alone.
I've the impression that to have the user configure the name of the
'sent' mailbox is somewhat against the philosophy of this project, but
I'll propose to make it configurable.

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
Überzeugung, dass die demokratischen Kräfte überwiegen und sich – auf
demokratischem Wege – durchsetzen."

Timo Kunze writes:

> Sam schrieb:
>>> Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use
>>> LSUB and some heuristics to identify it?
>>
>> LSUB may not necessarily show all available mailboxes, you have to use
>> LIST.
> Many thanks for this hint, I'll change my implementation.
>
>> Furthermore, it's simpler to just set the mailbox as a manual
>> configuration parameter. No heuristics will get it right 100% of the time.
> That's right. However, it's not my decision, or better: not mine alone.
> I've the impression that to have the user configure the name of the
> 'sent' mailbox is somewhat against the philosophy of this project, but
> I'll propose to make it configurable.

Define "this project". If you're referring to IMAP, it's quite the opposite.
Historically, IMAP's design leaned towards explicit, manual, client-side
configuration. For example, if the particular IMAP server chose to place
so-called "public" or "shared" folders into a "#public" namespace, IMAP
forced the user to explicitly configure the user's IMAP client accordingly,
because there was no mechanism by which the client could deduce this,
programmatically. The NAMESPACE extension came about later, which finally
allowed the client to figure things out, to some extent, automatically
without requiring manual interaction.



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On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Sam posted:
> Historically, IMAP's design leaned towards explicit, manual, client-side
> configuration.

Correct. With the benefit of 22 years of hindsight, this was a mistake.

A second mistake was IMAP's attempt to placate both sides (client and
server) of the "who controls the user experience" debate.

In defense, at the time there was still quite a variety of naming schema
that users on these various platforms were accustomed to seeing. UNIX was
clearly on the ascent compared to the old mainframe operating systems, but
it had not yet made the inroads in the PC space that it would a few years
later. URLs were still some time in the future. The mere notion of
"INBOX" as a common name was revolutionary for the time.

An opportunity existed to correct the problem in 1993; but at the time the
passionate debate was between export of a user's UNIX space vs. a netnews
space. Nobody then saw the importance of URLs, nor of other role
mailboxes. To the extent that roles were recognized at all, they were
misunderstood; RFC 1730 added a \Draft system flag rather than defining a
drafts mailbox.

The \Draft system flag would have been alright had IMAP done a better job
of promoting its "keyword" facility as an el cheapo virtual mailbox
facility (which is what it actually is). IMAP instead encouraged the use
of multiple mailboxes, which caused (and still causes!) no end of
problems.

Oh well.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

I meant the project I'm working on.

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
Überzeugung, dass die demokratischen Kräfte überwiegen und sich – auf
demokratischem Wege – durchsetzen."

Timo Kunze writes:

> I meant the project I'm working on.

Nobody knows what you mean. There are many informational web pages that
explain how to properly format reply messages, in accordance with
long-established conventions. It would serve you well to read them.


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Sam schrieb:
> Nobody knows what you mean. There are many informational web pages that
> explain how to properly format reply messages, in accordance with
> long-established conventions. It would serve you well to read them.
Do you make this proposal on each simple misunderstanding, especially if
the person you're addressing is not writing in his native language?

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
Überzeugung, dass die demokratischen Kräfte überwiegen und sich – auf
demokratischem Wege – durchsetzen."

In article <cone.1212491119.672044.30117.500@commodore.emai l-scan.com>,
Sam <sam@email-scan.com> wrote:

> Nobody knows what you mean. [...]

I don't think that the meaning is all that obscure here. Timo appears
to be working as a developer on a software project ("the project" to
which he refers), which includes an IMAP client component. He agreed
with your suggestion that the usual way to handle the naming of the
"sentmail" folder was to make it a client-side configuration option,
but noted in passing that he might have difficulties getting this
accepted by other developers and/or decision makers that he is working
with (presumably because they want to minimize configurable options
and setup questions, to make things "easy" for the end-user).

--
Neil Hoggarth ------------------- Computing Manager, Sherrington Building
Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics - University of Oxford, UK