Finally making use of PowerLisp despite several **horrible** bugs it has

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 01:40:58 -0700, seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org
(Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote:

>> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
>> I haven't followed the previous thread(s) so please forgive and
>> ignore me if you've heard all this before.
>
>Note, my current situation, including computer configuration/status:
> <http://www.rawbw.com/~rem/NewPub/mySituation.html>
>
>> Seriously you can't afford a $20 cable? You can make one yourself for
>> about $10.
>
>I have no money whatsoever, and I owe $60,000 to credit cards

Sorry to hear that. I hope your situation improves soon.


>> Laptop serial ports are Dsub-9M (aka DB-9M).
>
>On the back of the laptop, there are several connectors:
>- EIA female: 12+13 (icon looks like trapezoid with one part filled)

Parallel port

>- EIA male: 4+5 (icon looks like |0|0|)

Serial port

>- DIN female: UL2 UR2 Bot2 Center1 Top1 (icon looks like mouse+keyboard)

Keyboard and/or mouse

>- EIA female: 5+5+5 (icon looks like rectangle with bar at each end)

Video

>- Two rows of appx. 50 tiny closely-spaced pins per row, outer
> grounding shield is shaped liked EIA even though inner connector
> has same length in each row (no icon)

? Need a picture to be sure but most likely mini-SCSI.


>I assume the DIN connector is for external keyboard and/or mouse,
>but I don't think my Macintosh desktop-bus kbd+mouse will fit
>there, right?

It's an IBM PS/2 connector. Your Mac keyboard and mouse won't fit.


>If the EIA 12+13 socket is for serial I/O,

EIA 4+5 is serial.

>do you know any program
>on either MacOS 7.5.5 or Linux that will set that computer to act
>like a DCE, so that if I could borrow a MacDin-to-EIAModem cable
>(DTE/DCE) then the two computers could talk to each other that way,
>and I wouldn't need a special DTE/DTE cable? I can't use my current
>modem cable because it goes directly into the modem, no connector
>at that end, just the DIN connector at the Mac end.

DTE and DCE are complementary hardware specs. RS-232 signaling is
defined from the terminal's point of view. DCE (modem) equipment does
everything backwards - transmits on RXD, receives on TXD, etc.

Your computers' (Mac and PC) serial ports can only be DTE. The only
solution for connecting them is to get hold of (or make) a NULL-modem
cable.


>I seem to get the idea that you might be an expert at the names of
>the various kinds of connectors, hence my questions above, and my
>next questions:
>
>The plug-in internal modem uses a connector of 2 closely-spaced
>rows of appx. 34 tiny closely-spaced pins each. Do you know the
>formal ID of that type of connector? Do all/most laptop computers
>use the same type of connector for their plug-in internal modems?

No. Expansion board connectors are vendor specific.


>The plug-in internal hard disk uses a connector with plastic outer
>EIA-shape (but no protective ground metal), inside of which is a
>rectangular void with two rows of appx. 20 pins each on opposite
>sides of the void. Do you know the formal ID of that type of
>connector? Do all/most laptop computers use the same type of
>connector for their plug-in internal hard disks?

It's an IDC44 connector: 40 pin IDE + 4 pins for power. It's standard
for 2.5in hard drives. However, there are portables that use other
types of hard drives.


>> Linux needs to see DCD active but there is a software switch to
>> get around that if DCD isn't connected - see stty in the man pages.
>
>Do you know enough about Linux to advise me how to test whether the
>modem is actually broken or whether there's some software glitch in
>Linux

Sorry. I haven't had to do combat with a modem or serial connection
in many years ... and never on Linux.

As far as diagnosing the hardware (modem or serial port), you might
get yourself an old DOS comm program. DOS is still useful for
checking hardware because it's so primitive - it doesn't interfere
with everything like modern OSes do.

http://www.bootdisk.com/ for a DOS boot disk

http://home.att.net/~short.stop/freesoft/comm1.htm
http://www.telix.com/delta/deltacom/tfd/index.html

Linux's Minicom program is a port of Telix.


>Do you know anyone located in Sunnyvale (California) who knows
>enough about Linux to help me diagnose the problem?

Sorry, wrong coast.


>> If you have System 7 or later, you've got PPP built in.
>
>Except it doesn't work and I have no idea how to fix it. When I
>start up MS-IE from a CD-ROM, even to view a local file on the
>CD-ROM (documentation for the Data/FAX modem), it freezes the whole
>machine, requiring cold restart.

A Mac version of IE I hope!

>I suspect MS-IE checks PPP even before checking whether it'll
>even need it. (It won't need PPP to view files on the CD-ROM!!!)

IE tries to open the home page immediately when you launch it. Old
versions frequently did bad things if the connection failed.

You can hit the Command and period keys immediately after launching
IE5/IE6 to stop the home page from loading.

If you are really running IE from CD, it won't do any good to change
the default home page, but with %-. you should be able to at least
start it and use it locally.


>> Dial-up surfing need not be excruciating. If you can do without
>> the graphics and animations you can use a text-mode browser.
>
>I already do that by using VT100 emulator to dial into Unix shell,
>then running lynx there. How would MacLynx direct from my Mac be
>any better?

It won't. I figured you were using IE or Netscape and the graphics
were killing you.


>> Are you sure the laptop serial port works?
>
>I have no idea how to test to find out if it does.

Get a DOS comm program so Linux isn't interfering. Select no flow
control or software flow control. Short RXD and TXD on the DB-9 (EIA
4+5) connector and see if it echoes what you type. You may need extra
hands for this.

1 CD Carrier Detect
2 RXD Receive Data
3 TXD Transmit Data
4 DTR Data Terminal Ready
5 GND System Ground
6 DSR Data Set Ready
7 RTS Request to Send
8 CTS Clear to Send
9 RI Ring Indicator

If simple echoing works, you can enable and test other signals by
shorting them appropriately: RTS/CTS, DTR/DSR, etc. You can use DTR
as a source to test CD and RI. Remember to leave RXD-TXD shorted
while you test the other signals - you need to be able to send and
receive.


>I wish there was a cheap/free working laptop with working modem,
>that took the same kind of plug-in internal hard disk that mine
>uses, so that I could just transfer the hard disk to the new laptop
>whenever I wanted to upload/download files to/from that hard disk.

You can probably get away with that if the OS is Linux and you have a
full OS and driver set installation - like from a bootable CD.

Hard disk OS installations typically only copy the drivers for the
particular hardware you have. Normally you can't boot the drive on
another machine unless the hardware is the same.

George

> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
> ... Robert seems to be using really old equipment which is
> unlikely to have ethernet built-in

The modem in my laptop which stopped working several years ago (and
I am still looking for somebody who will help me diagnose whether
the problem is hardware or software) also is supposed to be an
EtherNet modem. But there's no EtherNet around here, so I couldn't
try it to see if that part of the modem work even if somebody
loaned me an EtherNet cable.

> I'm sure his Macintosh doesn't anyway.

Correct. It has AppleTalk, which I've never been able to get to
talk to anything, partly because it doesn't "just work" as
documented, and partly because I've never been able to find anyone
to help me diagnose why it doesn't work.

> And if he can't buy a $20 serial cable to connect his computers,
> he certainly can't buy EtherNet adapters.

More seriously, I can't buy a leased-line to connect to anywhere
that has EtherNet available so that I can even test whether
EtherNet works on my laptop. If you happen to own an EtherNet hub,
and another computer that already works with it, and a second
EtherNet cable, please contact me through my Web site to arrange to
visit me to give my laptop an EtherNet test.

> >I have no money whatsoever, and I owe $60,000 to credit cards
> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
> Sorry to hear that. I hope your situation improves soon.

You could help a little if you have some extra money available and
need some work done online. Despite my having over 20 years
experience writing computer software, I'm willing to work at the
legal minimum wage because that's better than getting no earned
income whatsoever.

> >> Laptop serial ports are Dsub-9M (aka DB-9M).

I don't see that listed below.

> >On the back of the laptop, there are several connectors:
> >- EIA female: 12+13 (icon looks like trapezoid with one part filled)
> Parallel port

Hmm, that's strange. That's the kind of connector that is normally
a serial port on external modems, and standalone terminals and
computers that connect to modems. Are these really the same kind of
connectors, or are they slightly different in some way that I
didn't notice? Why waste all that space on a laptop when a DIN
connector like on my Macintosh takes up so much less space?

> >- EIA male: 4+5 (icon looks like |0|0|)
> Serial port

That makes sense, since only 4 pins are needed for uncontrolled
dataflow and a couple extra for flow-control or device ready etc.
so nine makes more sense than the old 25. And the icon looks
vaguely like data in a stream, but it could just as well represent
parallel data sitting side by side since there's no arrow to
indicate flow with time.

> >- DIN female: UL2 UR2 Bot2 Center1 Top1 (icon looks like mouse+keyboard)
> Keyboard and/or mouse

OK, so at least that one is what I guessed from the icon.

> >- EIA female: 5+5+5 (icon looks like rectangle with bar at each end)
> Video

Hmm, I wonder if a VGA monitor such as the one I'm using on my
Macintosh (but with the VGA-to-Mac adaptor removed) would work?
Unplugging the Dell monitor from the adaptor just now I see that
it's the same 5+5+5 staggered EIA_style connector. Should I give it
a try just to satisfy my curiosity? Or is there some known
incompatibility? Would I need to go into root account to configure
the laptop to feed video there, or should it "just work" by
plugging it in?

> >- Two rows of appx. 50 tiny closely-spaced pins per row, outer
> > grounding shield is shaped liked EIA even though inner connector
> > has same length in each row (no icon)
> ? Need a picture to be sure but most likely mini-SCSI.

My camera-cellphone doesn't have good enough resolution to get a
decent photo, so I'll have to pass on identifying this.
I have a SyQuest drive that connects to my Mac via SCSI.
I wonder if with appropriate adaptor it'd work with my laptop?
Would Mac drivers on SyQuest drive work properly with RedHat Linux?

> >I assume the DIN connector is for external keyboard and/or mouse,
> >but I don't think my Macintosh desktop-bus kbd+mouse will fit
> >there, right?
> It's an IBM PS/2 connector. Your Mac keyboard and mouse won't fit.

What sorts of devices would connect to that? Only old obsolete
devices, or anything currently on sale at Target or Circuit City?

> >The plug-in internal modem uses a connector of 2 closely-spaced
> >rows of appx. 34 tiny closely-spaced pins each. Do you know the
> >formal ID of that type of connector? Do all/most laptop computers
> >use the same type of connector for their plug-in internal modems?
> No. Expansion board connectors are vendor specific.

So would any Dell laptop have the same kind of connector, or only
Dell Latitude XPi like I have? Since Dell is the largest (volume)
brand of laptops, there's a good chance somebody else in Sunnyvale
has a Dell laptop. I just need to find somebody with a Dell that
has compatible plug-in-internal modem connector who is friendly
enough to let me try swapping modems.

> >The plug-in internal hard disk uses a connector with plastic outer
> >EIA-shape (but no protective ground metal), inside of which is a
> >rectangular void with two rows of appx. 20 pins each on opposite
> >sides of the void. Do you know the formal ID of that type of
> >connector? Do all/most laptop computers use the same type of
> >connector for their plug-in internal hard disks?

> It's an IDC44 connector: 40 pin IDE + 4 pins for power. It's
> standard for 2.5in hard drives. However, there are portables
> that use other types of hard drives.

What's the chance somebody else with a Dell laptop would have a 2.5
inch internal hard drive like that, so that we could swap hard
drives when uploading/downloading files? (Assuming the other laptop
also has a working diskette drive, or a working modem, or a working
second disk of any type, or a working USB port, etc. etc.)

> As far as diagnosing the hardware (modem or serial port), you
> might get yourself an old DOS comm program. DOS is still useful
> for checking hardware because it's so primitive - it doesn't
> interfere with everything like modern OSes do.

How long would it take to manually key it into the laptop? Remember
that I currently have no way whatsoever to move files to the laptop
from any external source except keyboard. The laptop has GNU Emacs
which includes E-lisp, and Java. I think it also has C compiler. I
don't know if it has any any assembler.

> http://www.bootdisk.com/ for a DOS boot disk

What good would that do me??

> http://home.att.net/~short.stop/freesoft/comm1.htm

Unable to connect to remote host.

> http://www.telix.com/delta/deltacom/tfd/index.html

+ Download ShareWare Version 3.51
o Complete Package(610 k)
There's no way I'm going to be able to manually key in over six
hundred thousand bytes of hexadecimal codes by hand from the
keyboard without making a fatal mistake.

> Linux's Minicom program is a port of Telix.

Is there any way to patch Minicom to offer a diagnostic as to why
it believes the modem is already online when it's been offline for
the past several years and the whole laptop including the power to
the modem has been powered down for most of that time?

> >Except it doesn't work and I have no idea how to fix it. When I
> >start up MS-IE from a CD-ROM, even to view a local file on the
> >CD-ROM (documentation for the Data/FAX modem), it freezes the whole
> >machine, requiring cold restart.
> A Mac version of IE I hope!

Yup, that's what freezes my Mac Performa if I try to run it.
The only other programs which I know freeze my Mac Performa are:
- Macintosh Allegro Common Lisp version 1.2.2
- MacBugs!
- MacPaint
- B&W version of Risk, but I got the color version which works,
except I need to quit the program after every game because it
fails to return system memory and after many games eventually
enough memory is gobbled to crash the machine.
- ResEdit sometimes after I try to do anything serious with it
all of which worked just fine on my Mac Plus.

> >I suspect MS-IE checks PPP even before checking whether it'll
> >even need it. (It won't need PPP to view files on the CD-ROM!!!)
> IE tries to open the home page immediately when you launch it. Old
> versions frequently did bad things if the connection failed.

It's on a CD-ROM. Is there any way I can set a config file on the
regular hard disk to tell it to look *only* locally for the home
page? But the home page is *supposed* to be the toplevel index for
the Data/FAX modem documentation, not anything on the network at
all. So why does it need PPP at all when just starting up?

> You can hit the Command and period keys immediately after
> launching IE5/IE6 to stop the home page from loading.

How fast do I need to do it to avoid freezing the whole machine?

> If you are really running IE from CD, it won't do any good to
> change the default home page, but with %-. you should be able to at
> least start it and use it locally.

But why does it need PPP just to load home page from the CD-ROM
itself?? This all seems fishy. I could do a graceful shut-down of
all my programs, to avoid things being in funny states, then try
what you said, but unless you can explain why it needs to run PPP
just to read home page from CD-ROM that IE itself is on, I don't
think there's any value in doing the experiment at all.

> I figured you were using IE or Netscape and the graphics were killing you.

No, the only time I tried that was during the free month trial of
AT&T WorldNet in 1998, shortly after I bought the Mac Performa and
the data/FAX modem for it. That's when it took 20 minutes just to
download the AT&T WorldNet home page and 5 minutes to refresh the
screen each time I clicked on the local scroll bar in IE. I had
been using InterNet via Lynx on Unix via VT100 emulator before then
and went right back to that after the horrible AT&T WorldNet trial.
And it wasn't even free as they advertised!! They billed me a
surcharge, which I refused to pay, and after several months AT&T
discontinued my long-distance phone service but continued to
collect the Universal Lifeline long-distance tarrif from Pacific
Bell then SBC for the next eight or so years.

> Get a DOS comm program so Linux isn't interfering.

How do I do that on a laptop with no working modem and no working
diskette drive and no CD-ROM drive at all and no USB port and no
other way to hook up an external device of any kind except possibly
a VGA monitor?

> >I wish there was a cheap/free working laptop with working modem,
> >that took the same kind of plug-in internal hard disk that mine
> >uses, so that I could just transfer the hard disk to the new laptop
> >whenever I wanted to upload/download files to/from that hard disk.
> You can probably get away with that if the OS is Linux and you have a
> full OS and driver set installation - like from a bootable CD.

Is it possible that the previous owner of the laptop (an instructor
at De Anza College) has copied all that somewhere on the hard disk,
possibly in some protected directory accessible only from the root
account? If so, where might I look for it? Or I wonder if some
random person in Sunnyvale who lets me try my disk in his/her
laptop would have a CD-ROM drive and also have the installation
CD-ROM to have available during boot attempt? Or am I all confused
about where the drivers would need to be present during attempted
boot of my hard disk in another computer?

> Hard disk OS installations typically only copy the drivers for
> the particular hardware you have. Normally you can't boot the
> drive on another machine unless the hardware is the same.

Which models of Dell laptop have the same/compatible hardware as mine?
Only the Dell Latitude XPi P133ST, but not other Dell Latitude XPi?
Or all Dell Latitude XPi, but not other Dell Latitude?
Or all Dell Latitude, but not other Dell?


Thanks for the info about the various kinds of connectors.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:44:31 -0700, seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org
(Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote:

>> >> Laptop serial ports are Dsub-9M (aka DB-9M).
>
>I don't see that listed below.

Dsub-9 (or D-9) is the common name for the 4+5 connector.

Most people have no clue what the EIA is ... in the micro world
connectors are typically referred to by its function (which you are
presumed to know), or by its shape and number of pins.

Occasionally you also find connectors that are referred to by the name
of the original vendor ... for example the "Centronics" parallel
interface.


>> >On the back of the laptop, there are several connectors:
>> >- EIA female: 12+13 (icon looks like trapezoid with one part filled)
>> Parallel port
>
>Hmm, that's strange. That's the kind of connector that is normally
>a serial port on external modems, and standalone terminals and
>computers that connect to modems. Are these really the same kind of
>connectors, or are they slightly different in some way that I
>didn't notice?

Yes, they are the same connector - a 25-pin D. Historically, the D-25
was the standard connector for both serial and parallel I/O devices.
A 25-wire straight through cable could be used for either a parallel
printer or a modem.

The funny looking icon is probably meant to be a printed page. I
don't go by icons much because they are frequently embossed in the
case and too small and badly contrasted to see well.

I know this particular port is parallel because I know the 9-pin port
is serial. Notebooks rarely have more than one serial port (when they
do, the 2nd port is also 9-pin) and older notebooks (pre-2005) usually
included a parallel printer port.
[Now you're lucky if your notebook even has a serial port. Most have
modems and NICs built-in and almost every device you'd attach is
available in USB or IEEE-1394.]

If there were only one D-25 connector then I'd have to guess, but I'd
still guess parallel unless the machine was very, very old. The first
notebooks had D-25 serial, but it was quickly replaced with D-9.


>Why waste all that space on a laptop when a DIN
>connector like on my Macintosh takes up so much less space?

The Mac port is actually a mini-DIN, but the answer to your question
is "because it needed a parallel port for printing".


>> >- EIA male: 4+5 (icon looks like |0|0|)
>> Serial port
>
>That makes sense, since only 4 pins are needed for uncontrolled
>dataflow and a couple extra for flow-control or device ready etc.
>so nine makes more sense than the old 25. And the icon looks
>vaguely like data in a stream, but it could just as well represent
>parallel data sitting side by side since there's no arrow to
>indicate flow with time.

The 9-pin serial port was introduced on notebooks because the 25-pin
port took up too much space and very few devices required more than
DTR and RTS-CTS. Most of the 25 wires went unused.


>> >- DIN female: UL2 UR2 Bot2 Center1 Top1 (icon looks like mouse+keyboard)
>> Keyboard and/or mouse
>
>OK, so at least that one is what I guessed from the icon.

PS/2 can daisy chain so the port can work a keyboard, a mouse, or
both. You just need the right drivers. Linux should recognize a
mouse if you plug it in ... don't know about a keyboard.


>> >- EIA female: 5+5+5 (icon looks like rectangle with bar at each end)
>> Video
>
>Hmm, I wonder if a VGA monitor such as the one I'm using on my
>Macintosh (but with the VGA-to-Mac adaptor removed) would work?
>Unplugging the Dell monitor from the adaptor just now I see that
>it's the same 5+5+5 staggered EIA_style connector. Should I give it
>a try just to satisfy my curiosity? Or is there some known
>incompatibility? Would I need to go into root account to configure
>the laptop to feed video there, or should it "just work" by
>plugging it in?

VGA is standard ... there should be no harm in plugging it in.

However, the video port is firmware controlled and on most notebooks
it is normally disabled. Some notebooks can recognize that an
external monitor is attached and switch it on automatically, but
usually you need to activate it with a function key. There's no
standard for notebook function keys so you'll have to find it
yourself.

Some notebooks toggle between LCD and monitor and some will let you
use both simultaneously. On some it's a BIOS setting.


>> >- Two rows of appx. 50 tiny closely-spaced pins per row, outer
>> > grounding shield is shaped liked EIA even though inner connector
>> > has same length in each row (no icon)
>> ? Need a picture to be sure but most likely mini-SCSI.
>
>My camera-cellphone doesn't have good enough resolution to get a
>decent photo, so I'll have to pass on identifying this.

It could also be some kind of base-station connector. Base connectors
are usually by themselves with some kind of door to protect them ...
but not always.


>> >I assume the DIN connector is for external keyboard and/or mouse,
>> >but I don't think my Macintosh desktop-bus kbd+mouse will fit
>> >there, right?
>> It's an IBM PS/2 connector. Your Mac keyboard and mouse won't fit.
>
>What sorts of devices would connect to that? Only old obsolete
>devices, or anything currently on sale at Target or Circuit City?

Keyboards, mice, trackballs, numeric keypads, joysticks.

Technically, the PS/2 connector is considered obsolete - it's
functions have been subsumed by USB. But there are still millions of
machines in use with PS/2 keyboards and mice so you can get them most
anywhere. The other stuff is harder to find.


>> >The plug-in internal modem uses a connector of 2 closely-spaced
>> >rows of appx. 34 tiny closely-spaced pins each. Do you know the
>> >formal ID of that type of connector? Do all/most laptop computers
>> >use the same type of connector for their plug-in internal modems?
>> No. Expansion board connectors are vendor specific.
>
>So would any Dell laptop have the same kind of connector, or only
>Dell Latitude XPi like I have? Since Dell is the largest (volume)
>brand of laptops, there's a good chance somebody else in Sunnyvale
>has a Dell laptop. I just need to find somebody with a Dell that
>has compatible plug-in-internal modem connector who is friendly
>enough to let me try swapping modems.

This I can't answer. It's reasonable to think that Dell would reuse
the same connector but I don't know that for certain. You might call
them and ask.


>> >The plug-in internal hard disk uses a connector with plastic outer
>> >EIA-shape (but no protective ground metal), inside of which is a
>> >rectangular void with two rows of appx. 20 pins each on opposite
>> >sides of the void. Do you know the formal ID of that type of
>> >connector? Do all/most laptop computers use the same type of
>> >connector for their plug-in internal hard disks?
>
>> It's an IDC44 connector: 40 pin IDE + 4 pins for power. It's
>> standard for 2.5in hard drives. However, there are portables
>> that use other types of hard drives.
>
>What's the chance somebody else with a Dell laptop would have a 2.5
>inch internal hard drive like that, so that we could swap hard
>drives when uploading/downloading files? (Assuming the other laptop
>also has a working diskette drive, or a working modem, or a working
>second disk of any type, or a working USB port, etc. etc.)

Almost every notebook with a hard disk uses 2.5in drives - there are
very few exceptions. The issue isn't whether you can plug it in, the
issue is whether you can boot from it. Hard disk OS installations are
usually customized to the local hardware - if the disk is moved into a
different machine the OS frequently will not start.

You have some options here:
- there are adaptors to connect 2.5in drives to standard ATA/IDE so
the drive could be connected to any desktop machine as a 2nd drive.
- some notebooks can attach a 2nd drive.
- you can find someone whose notebook has a DVD/CD reader, attach your
drive and boot the machine with a "live" Linux CD so your drive is
just a data device.
- you can try to find someone with identical hardware so your drive
will boot properly.


>> As far as diagnosing the hardware (modem or serial port), you
>> might get yourself an old DOS comm program. DOS is still useful
>> for checking hardware because it's so primitive - it doesn't
>> interfere with everything like modern OSes do.
>
>How long would it take to manually key it into the laptop? Remember
>that I currently have no way whatsoever to move files to the laptop
>from any external source except keyboard.

You have the serial port. And maybe the modem if you can figure out
what's wrong.


>> Linux's Minicom program is a port of Telix.
>
>Is there any way to patch Minicom to offer a diagnostic as to why
>it believes the modem is already online when it's been offline for
>the past several years and the whole laptop including the power to
>the modem has been powered down for most of that time?

Many comm programs use DCD to tell whether a modem is attached and
powered on. The internal modem is powered on whenever the computer is
and probably hardwires DCD on. It doesn't mean the modem's telephone
side has a connection.



>It's on a CD-ROM. Is there any way I can set a config file on the
>regular hard disk to tell IE to look *only* locally for the home
>page?

Once you get it running you can set options to do that.


>But the home page is *supposed* to be the toplevel index for
>the Data/FAX modem documentation, not anything on the network at
>all. So why does it need PPP at all when just starting up?
>
>> You can hit the Command and period keys immediately after
>> launching IE5/IE6 to stop the home page from loading.
>
>How fast do I need to do it to avoid freezing the whole machine?

I would hold them down while launching it.


>> If you are really running IE from CD, it won't do any good to
>> change the default home page, but with %-. you should be able to at
>> least start it and use it locally.
>
>But why does it need PPP just to load home page from the CD-ROM
>itself?? This all seems fishy. I could do a graceful shut-down of
>all my programs, to avoid things being in funny states, then try
>what you said, but unless you can explain why it needs to run PPP
>just to read home page from CD-ROM that IE itself is on, I don't
>think there's any value in doing the experiment at all.

IE does _not_ try to open a web connection unless the URL can't be
found OR the page tries to load something from the web (a graphic or
script, etc.). You are ASSUMING that the page doesn't reference
anything on the web.

You can test this by copying the IE icon and changing the launch
command so IE tries to open something else - a local picture or text
file ... something you _know_ references nothing else.

I don't actually care whether you try it or not. All I can do is make
suggestions ... if you don't want to follow them, that's fine.


>> You can probably get away with that if the OS is Linux and you have a
>> full OS and driver set installation - like from a bootable CD.
>
>Is it possible that the previous owner of the laptop (an instructor
>at De Anza College) has copied all that somewhere on the hard disk,
>possibly in some protected directory accessible only from the root
>account? If so, where might I look for it?

It's very unlikely that a hard disk OS installation has all drivers.

If the laptop came from Dell with Linux preinstalled, then there might
be a recovery partition you could look for with the disk tools, but it
would just reformat the boot partition and reinstall the original
software. If the person installed Linux himself/herself, then there
probably will not be any kind of recovery partition ... very few
non-IT people even think of doing that.


>Which models of Dell laptop have the same/compatible hardware as mine?
>Only the Dell Latitude XPi P133ST, but not other Dell Latitude XPi?
>Or all Dell Latitude XPi, but not other Dell Latitude?
>Or all Dell Latitude, but not other Dell?

I would guess that any XPi is sufficiently compatible. Other models
will probably not be compatible enough to boot your disk.

George

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:28:45 -0700, seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org
(Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote:

>> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
>
>> I'm sure [Robert's] Macintosh doesn't have [Ethernet].
>
>Correct. It has AppleTalk, which I've never been able to get to
>talk to anything, partly because it doesn't "just work" as
>documented, and partly because I've never been able to find anyone
>to help me diagnose why it doesn't work.

AppleTalk does "just work" as documented - it is completely plug and
play and requires somewhere between no configuration and absolutely
minimal configuration (typically just a network name with all other
settings arbitrated automatically). But you need to have other
AppleTalk devices (computer, laser printer, etc.) and proper cabling
to do anything with it.

Apple serial cables do not work for AppleTalk.

George

> >> I'm sure [Robert's] Macintosh doesn't have [Ethernet].
> >Correct. It has AppleTalk, which I've never been able to get to
> >talk to anything, partly because it doesn't "just work" as
> >documented, and partly because I've never been able to find anyone
> >to help me diagnose why it doesn't work.
> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
> AppleTalk does "just work" as documented - it is completely plug and
> play and requires somewhere between no configuration and absolutely
> minimal configuration (typically just a network name with all other
> settings arbitrated automatically). But you need to have other
> AppleTalk devices (computer, laser printer, etc.) and proper cabling
> to do anything with it.
> Apple serial cables do not work for AppleTalk.

No, AppleTalk does not *just*work*. I spent about $20 for the
complete set of stuff needed to connect my 9-yr-old Macintosh Plus
to my newly-purchased Macintosh Performa, and spent several days
trying to get either machine to talk to the other, but it didn't
work at all.

Those were a plastic-wrapped package of stuff specifically for
AppleTalk, not serial cables from somewhere else cross-mixed.

seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes:

> > >> I'm sure [Robert's] Macintosh doesn't have [Ethernet].
> > >Correct. It has AppleTalk, which I've never been able to get to
> > >talk to anything, partly because it doesn't "just work" as
> > >documented, and partly because I've never been able to find anyone
> > >to help me diagnose why it doesn't work.
> > From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
> > AppleTalk does "just work" as documented - it is completely plug and
> > play and requires somewhere between no configuration and absolutely
> > minimal configuration (typically just a network name with all other
> > settings arbitrated automatically). But you need to have other
> > AppleTalk devices (computer, laser printer, etc.) and proper cabling
> > to do anything with it.
> > Apple serial cables do not work for AppleTalk.
>
> No, AppleTalk does not *just*work*. I spent about $20 for the
> complete set of stuff needed to connect my 9-yr-old Macintosh Plus
> to my newly-purchased Macintosh Performa, and spent several days
> trying to get either machine to talk to the other, but it didn't
> work at all.

Hmmm. Oddly enough, it used to "just work" for me when I had it. I
used it for a long time at home, until I finally upgraded the laser
printer to work with Ethernet. But that was a long time ago. That
printer has long been replaced, and I have all this useless localtalk
hardware still sitting in a closet somewhere.

--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:46:26 -0800, seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org
(Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote:

>> >> I'm sure [Robert's] Macintosh doesn't have [Ethernet].
>> >Correct. It has AppleTalk, which I've never been able to get to
>> >talk to anything, partly because it doesn't "just work" as
>> >documented, and partly because I've never been able to find anyone
>> >to help me diagnose why it doesn't work.
>
>> From: George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net>
>> AppleTalk does "just work" as documented - it is completely plug and
>> play and requires somewhere between no configuration and absolutely
>> minimal configuration (typically just a network name with all other
>> settings arbitrated automatically). But you need to have other
>> AppleTalk devices (computer, laser printer, etc.) and proper cabling
>> to do anything with it.
>> Apple serial cables do not work for AppleTalk.
>
>No, AppleTalk does not *just*work*. I spent about $20 for the
>complete set of stuff needed to connect my 9-yr-old Macintosh Plus
>to my newly-purchased Macintosh Performa, and spent several days
>trying to get either machine to talk to the other, but it didn't
>work at all.

Then one (or both) Macs had damaged OS installations. AppleTalk is
about as simple as can be:

- select which serial port to use for the network
- pick a network name for the computer
- plug the transponder into the right serial port

I can't explain why you have so much trouble - maybe you're cursed
somehow. At one time or another I've networked just about everything
AppleTalk could handle: Macs, LaserWriters, appliance hard disks,
IIgs's, Apple II's with AT card, even WinNT PCs with AT cards. I've
used both Apple's own network hardware and third party systems like
Farralon's PhoneNet.

Except for a broken wire I had once and initially figuring out how to
configure Windows to use AppleTalk (which was not doorknob simple)
I've never had any trouble getting an AppleTalk network running.

George

> From: t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ)
> Hmmm. Oddly enough, it used to "just work" for me when I had it.
> I used it for a long time at home, until I finally upgraded the
> laser printer to work with Ethernet. But that was a long time ago.
> That printer has long been replaced, and I have all this useless
> localtalk hardware still sitting in a closet somewhere.

Maybe it "just works" only when connecting a computer to a printer,
as you did, but requires special expertise to set up file sharing
between two computers, as I was attempting. I could never get it to
work, in either direction, and nobody offered me help how to get it
working.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:07:17 -0800, seeWebInstead@teh.intarweb.org
(Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) wrote:

>> From: t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ)
>> Hmmm. Oddly enough, it used to "just work" for me when I had it.
>> I used it for a long time at home, until I finally upgraded the
>> laser printer to work with Ethernet. But that was a long time ago.
>> That printer has long been replaced, and I have all this useless
>> localtalk hardware still sitting in a closet somewhere.
>
>Maybe it "just works" only when connecting a computer to a printer,
>as you did, but requires special expertise to set up file sharing
>between two computers, as I was attempting. I could never get it to
>work, in either direction, and nobody offered me help how to get it
>working.

Then I say again you must have had a damaged OS install because AT
file sharing is designed to be very simple.

George