Job Market for Lisp and Haskell programmers, serious question.

In article <lzy72m5jog.fsf@goenninger.net>,
Frank GOENNINGER <dont-email-me@nomail.org> wrote:

> Kenny <kentilton@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Tamas K Papp wrote:
> >
> >> I don't care what goals Xah has with trolling, but apparently quite
> >> a few people reading this newsgroup have become the means to
> >> whatever he is trying to achieve. Yes, he is trolling.
> >
> > No, Harrop is trolling. Xah is sincere.
>
> That exactly is what should worry all readers of Xah's posts. I have
> had enough of these postings here, so I do what I normally try to
> avoid: Post a non-Lisp related article here in c.l.l. as I am just too
> upset (and yes, I *do* know that this is very goal our dear Xah has).
>
> We have seen many postings of his "essays". For me, the classification
> of these texts are like propaganda:
>
> They
>
> 1. have a message,
> 2. are repeated over and over,
> 3. are sent without having asked for,
> 4. do not intend to sincerely ask for interactive exchange of
> information,
> 5. are written to leave room for interpretation,
> 6. are aiming to polarize the audience.
>
> Again, I want to emphasize that this is *my* classification, not meant
> to be disiputed or questioned or to be made into an objective observation
> in any scientific sense.
>
> > If you cannot see his
> > sincerity, stop worrying abouyt Xah and start worrying about your
> > ability to read people.
>
> 2 comments to this:
>
> For one, a person trying to distribute propaganda sincerely is case
> for observing closely what is happening. I am German. I do know what
> propaganda can lead to.

When I was in University attending some maths lecture,
we had some older guy giving small
pages with text and formulas away - to the young students,
after the lecture.
I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was
a rational number. He explained that there was some
conspiracy going on so that this truth is not revealed
to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something
like TeX - which at that time was not that widely available.

Xah's stuff about Lisp is on that level. He spends lots
of time to argue about something he don't understands,
has no experience with and which is basically flawed.

Since he is trapped in his small world, there is little hope
that he finds a way out. Some other of his stuff (non-Lisp)
can be semi-interesting. But his personal style attacking
people and religious anti-lisp stuff let's me have
enough of him. Even if one would find some time
discussing things with him - in the end it leads to nothing.
There is no progress and little to be learned from it -
so it is a time waste.

>
> On a second point I still do have the feeling
> that, by either intently or by sheer inability, Xah is writing in a
> vague English wording and this leads to a difficulty in reading his
> texts, let alone read him.
>
> >
> >> I just don't understand what benefit otherwise intelligent people
> >> would derive from becoming conversation partners to a disturbed
> >> individual.
> >
> > Without fail, the best conversation partners are so disturbed they are
> > under treatment with psychotropic drugs. Or should be.
> >
> > hth, kt
>
> Ok, non-native English speaker here. I do not get the real meaning
> of that last paragraph, Kenny, I fear. Could you elaborate? Thx!
>
> Frank

--
http://lispm.dyndns.org/

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:20:34 +0200, Rainer Joswig wrote:

> I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was a rational number.
> He explained that there was some conspiracy going on so that this truth
> is not revealed to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
> drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something like TeX -
> which at that time was not that widely available.

I have a friend who is a mathematician at a major US university.
Apparently their Math department gets quite a bit of mail from crackpots
who claim similar things. Some even come to the building and put up
fliers (!).

Tamas

In article <6hdr2tFkdhveU3@mid.individual.net>,
Tamas K Papp <tkpapp@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:20:34 +0200, Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> > I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was a rational number.
> > He explained that there was some conspiracy going on so that this truth
> > is not revealed to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
> > drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something like TeX -
> > which at that time was not that widely available.
>
> I have a friend who is a mathematician at a major US university.
> Apparently their Math department gets quite a bit of mail from crackpots
> who claim similar things. Some even come to the building and put up
> fliers (!).

Same here with Xah and c.l.l.

>
> Tamas

--
http://lispm.dyndns.org/

Rainer Joswig <joswig@lisp.de> writes:

> When I was in University attending some maths lecture,
> we had some older guy giving small
> pages with text and formulas away - to the young students,
> after the lecture.
> I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was
> a rational number. He explained that there was some
> conspiracy going on so that this truth is not revealed
> to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
> drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something
> like TeX - which at that time was not that widely available.

We had one like that, too, but he was far more advanced, he was
arguing against Gödel.

--
(espen)

Frank GOENNINGER wrote:
> Kenny <kentilton@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Tamas K Papp wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't care what goals Xah has with trolling, but apparently quite
>>>a few people reading this newsgroup have become the means to
>>>whatever he is trying to achieve. Yes, he is trolling.
>>
>>No, Harrop is trolling. Xah is sincere.
>
>
> That exactly is what should worry all readers of Xah's posts. I have
> had enough of these postings here, so I do what I normally try to
> avoid: Post a non-Lisp related article here in c.l.l. as I am just too
> upset (and yes, I *do* know that this is very goal our dear Xah has).
>
> We have seen many postings of his "essays". For me, the classification
> of these texts are like propaganda:
>
> They
>
> 1. have a message,
> 2. are repeated over and over,
> 3. are sent without having asked for,
> 4. do not intend to sincerely ask for interactive exchange of
> information,
> 5. are written to leave room for interpretation,
> 6. are aiming to polarize the audience.
>
> Again, I want to emphasize that this is *my* classification, not meant
> to be disiputed or questioned or to be made into an objective observation
> in any scientific sense.
>
>
>>If you cannot see his
>>sincerity, stop worrying abouyt Xah and start worrying about your
>>ability to read people.
>
>
> 2 comments to this:
>
> For one, a person trying to distribute propaganda sincerely is case
> for observing closely what is happening. I am German. I do know what
> propaganda can lead to.

"sincere propaganda"?

Come on, Xah used to make about one (clearly) heartfelt post a month. I
see no guile in the man.

>
> On a second point I still do have the feeling
> that, by either intently or by sheer inability, Xah is writing in a
> vague English wording and this leads to a difficulty in reading his
> texts, let alone read him.

Perhaps Xah began posting more copiously at just the right time for me,
when I am too busy Writing Applications to read anything longer than a
few lines.

>
>
>>>I just don't understand what benefit otherwise intelligent people
>>>would derive from becoming conversation partners to a disturbed
>>>individual.
>>
>>Without fail, the best conversation partners are so disturbed they are
>>under treatment with psychotropic drugs. Or should be.
>>
>>hth, kt
>
>
> Ok, non-native English speaker here. I do not get the real meaning
> of that last paragraph, Kenny, I fear. Could you elaborate? Thx!

haha, this is a rara case where literal translation would work -- I do
not see anything to clarify. Of course there is some hyperbole in there,
but I am sure you have adjusted the gain on your antenna for me.

I'll try again: round about the fourth instance I decided it was no
accident that the most intelligent, engaged, interested, interesting,
and decent people I had ever met were bonkers enough to be on meds.
Literally.

kt

On 24 ago, 17:18, Espen Vestre <es...@vestre.net> wrote:
> Rainer Joswig <jos...@lisp.de> writes:
> > When I was in University attending some maths lecture,
> > we had some older guy giving small
> > pages with text and formulas away - to the young students,
> > after the lecture.
> > I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was
> > a rational number. He explained that there was some
> > conspiracy going on so that this truth is not revealed
> > to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
> > drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something
> > like TeX - which at that time was not that widely available.
>
> We had one like that, too, but he was far more advanced, he was
> arguing against Gödel.
>
> --
> * (espen)

Yes, I was googling for the man, but forgot the exact wording that
truly defined him, until the pp spell it: "crackpot"! Louis Savain
is the name of the game. Xah should join him, but a word of advise:
Louis is far more of a true internet celebrity.

He knows he's a crackpot:
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...edentials.html

Here's him insulting the likes of Einstein, Godel, Feynman etc:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm

Here's his long winding, going-nowhere, drastically "innovative" and
ingenious new paradigm for parallel programming:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/COSA.htm

A true nutjob.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:33:04 -0700 (PDT), namekuseijin
<namekuseijin@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 24 ago, 17:18, Espen Vestre <es...@vestre.net> wrote:
>> Rainer Joswig <jos...@lisp.de> writes:
>> > When I was in University attending some maths lecture,
>> > we had some older guy giving small
>> > pages with text and formulas away - to the young students,
>> > after the lecture.
>> > I read one of those. The guy was arguing that PI was
>> > a rational number. He explained that there was some
>> > conspiracy going on so that this truth is not revealed
>> > to the public. He spend lots of time to create fancy
>> > drawings - probably the paper was typeset with something
>> > like TeX - which at that time was not that widely available.
>>
>> We had one like that, too, but he was far more advanced, he was
>> arguing against Gödel.
>>
>> --
>> * (espen)
>
>Yes, I was googling for the man, but forgot the exact wording that
>truly defined him, until the pp spell it: "crackpot"! Louis Savain
>is the name of the game. Xah should join him, but a word of advise:
>Louis is far more of a true internet celebrity.
>
>He knows he's a crackpot:
>http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...edentials.html
>
>Here's him insulting the likes of Einstein, Godel, Feynman etc:
>http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm
>
>Here's his long winding, going-nowhere, drastically "innovative" and
>ingenious new paradigm for parallel programming:
>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/COSA.htm
>
>A true nutjob.

Yo, Seijin meistah-san. I must have cranked you real hard, didn't I,
Nameku-san? ahahaha... You should at least have the gonads to identify
yourself when you're badmouthing your betters, eh? I know you
functional programming nerds get all twisted out of shape when
somebody writes that functional programming is crap. ahahaha... You
should check out my latest articles (see links below) on Erlang.
Enough to give you function heads an apoplectic fit and hit the dirt.
ahahaha... ahahaha...

Erlang Is Not the Solution:
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...-solution.html

Tilera’s TILE64: The Good, the Bad and the Possible, Part II
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...ssible_15.html

ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...

Louis Savain

Rebel Science News:
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/

On 25 ago, 00:15, Traveler <noasskiss...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:33:04 -0700 (PDT), namekuseijin
> <namekusei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Yes, I was googling for the man, but forgot the exact wording that
> >truly defined him, until the pp spell it: *"crackpot"! *Louis Savain
> >is the name of the game. *Xah should join him, but a word of advise:
> >Louis is far more of a true internet celebrity.
>
> >He knows he's a crackpot:
> >http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...are-my-credent...
>
> >Here's him insulting the likes of Einstein, Godel, Feynman etc:
> >http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm
>
> >Here's his long winding, going-nowhere, drastically "innovative" and
> >ingenious new paradigm for parallel programming:
> >http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/COSA.htm
>
> >A true nutjob.
>
> Yo, Seijin meistah-san. I must have cranked you real hard, didn't I,
> Nameku-san? ahahaha... You should at least have the gonads to identify
> yourself when you're badmouthing your betters, eh? I know you
> functional programming nerds get all twisted out of shape when
> somebody writes that functional programming is crap. ahahaha... You
> should check out my latest articles (see links below) on Erlang.
> Enough to give you function heads an apoplectic fit and hit the dirt.
> ahahaha... ahahaha...
>
> Erlang Is Not the Solution:http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...-solution.html
>
> Tilera’s TILE64: The Good, the Bad and the Possible, Part IIhttp://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2008/08/tileras-tile64-good-bad-and-...
>
> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...
>
> Louis Savain
>
> Rebel Science News:http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/

See what I mean? So much of an internet celebrity that he quickly
found out a miserable usenet post mentioning him.

Well, now that you're here anyway, I'd like to introduce you to Xah.
Xah, Louis. Louis, Xah. I hope you have fun together. Or are you 2
the same?

Kenny may joing occasionaly...

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:52:20 -0700 (PDT), namekuseijin
<namekuseijin@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 25 ago, 00:15, Traveler <noasskiss...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:33:04 -0700 (PDT), namekuseijin
>> <namekusei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Yes, I was googling for the man, but forgot the exact wording that
>> >truly defined him, until the pp spell it: *"crackpot"! *Louis Savain
>> >is the name of the game. *Xah should join him, but a word of advise:
>> >Louis is far more of a true internet celebrity.
>>
>> >He knows he's a crackpot:
>> >http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...are-my-credent...
>>
>> >Here's him insulting the likes of Einstein, Godel, Feynman etc:
>> >http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm
>>
>> >Here's his long winding, going-nowhere, drastically "innovative" and
>> >ingenious new paradigm for parallel programming:
>> >http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/COSA.htm
>>
>> >A true nutjob.
>>
>> Yo, Seijin meistah-san. I must have cranked you real hard, didn't I,
>> Nameku-san? ahahaha... You should at least have the gonads to identify
>> yourself when you're badmouthing your betters, eh? I know you
>> functional programming nerds get all twisted out of shape when
>> somebody writes that functional programming is crap. ahahaha... You
>> should check out my latest articles (see links below) on Erlang.
>> Enough to give you function heads an apoplectic fit and hit the dirt.
>> ahahaha... ahahaha...
>>
>> Erlang Is Not the Solution:http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/200...-solution.html
>>
>> Tilera’s TILE64: The Good, the Bad and the Possible, Part IIhttp://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2008/08/tileras-tile64-good-bad-and-...
>>
>> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...
>>
>> Louis Savain
>>
>> Rebel Science News:http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/
>
>See what I mean? So much of an internet celebrity that he quickly
>found out a miserable usenet post mentioning him.

Yo, Name-san. ahahaha… It may come as a disappointment to you but I
have readers who write to me and tell me things. Come to think of it,
I think I may have had a close encounter with your kind about a year
or so ago. Are you the dumbass function head from Brazil who thinks
everything is a function? ahahaha... Who knows? Maybe the whole
universe is a freaking function with a huge stack and no states. Or
maybe every particle is a function with its own little stack.
ahahaha... AHAHAHA... Thanks for the laughs.

ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...

Louis Savain

Rebel Science News:
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/

On 25 ago, 03:34, Traveler <noasskiss...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> Yo, Name-san. ahahaha… It may come as a disappointment to you but I
> have readers who write to me and tell me things.

Amazing. Then again, Xah is also a very successful bozo.

> Come to think of it,
> I think I may have had a close encounter with your kind about a year
> or so ago. Are you the dumbass function head from Brazil who thinks
> everything is a function?

Yes, I'm brazilian. I vaguely remember getting into an argument with
you about lambda calculus.

> Who knows? Maybe the whole
> universe is a freaking function with a huge stack and no states. Or
> maybe every particle is a function with its own little stack.

Perhaps it's just tail-call optimized.

> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... Thanks for the laughs.
>
> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...

Time for the medicine, Louis.