Job Market for Lisp and Haskell programmers, serious question.

define-symbol-macro?

What the hell is that?

s/b defsymmacro, I smell a Schemer.

kenny

På Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:25:06 +0200, skrev Kenny <kentilton@gmail.com>:

> define-symbol-macro?
>
> What the hell is that?
>
> s/b defsymmacro, I smell a Schemer.
>

Same as define-condition, a Pitman name (He prefers whole words
remember)

It associates a symbol with a form which is verbatimly substituted in for
the symbol.

It was introduced to Lisp to support with-slots and with-accessors.
As such it is rarely called directly, but sometimes used in macros.

--------------
John Thingstad

On Sep 4, 12:25*am, Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> define-symbol-macro?
>
> What the hell is that?
>
> s/b defsymmacro, I smell a Schemer.
>
> kenny

Brought to you by the Lispers who don't want to remove the fun from
their functions, the letter Qute, and the number 2.

On Sep 4, 12:25*am, Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> define-symbol-macro?
>
> What the hell is that?
>
> s/b defsymmacro, I smell a Schemer.

(def symbol-macro kenny ...)

if you sue DEFINER

Cheers
--
Marco

namekuseijin wrote:
> On 3 set, 04:30, Benjamin L. Russell <DekuDekup...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Most of the programmers whom I worked with were not interested in
> > programming theory, or even in programming per se, and spent most of
> > their free time in the office watching giant centipedes eating mice on
> > YouTube, chatting in Yahoo! Messenger, or sending e-mail.
>
> Or reading newsgroups, if they are old-timers...
>
> > Once, I
> > tried discussing the Towers of Hanoi problem with one of them, and he
> > replied that it was "a very hard problem" in programming. I couldn't
> > believe this. Towers of Hanoi is a first-year student problem for
> > computer science students!
>
> That's the typical everyday joe. Most people I know from IT only
> really know SQL as a programming language. And that is just to fetch
> their precious user data in order to feed them to business rules
> processors. Why should they give any thought to interesting new
> problems so far fetched from their everyday domain? They just let
> others write creative tools for them and are happy to just be the
> middlemen between tools and users.
>
> > Therefore, they learn to
> > hate the topic, and proceed to spend all their free time trying to
> > forget about programming.
>
> Yes, but lack of curiosity and no desire to learn is all their fault
> really. Most people are cattle and just enjoy eating grass, if there
> is any. If there isn't any, they just die.
Most coders took programming as a job, something you do for money so
could spend them on things that you need and things that interests
you. If there was another job requring same effort and payed more they
would be doing that instead. Why would somebody be reading about tower
of hanoi when there is a good game on TV? If they need something to
advance their career so they could make more money so they could buy
bigger tv they will learn, it doesn't matter to them. It's the people
who see programming as more than work who are complaining.
Just imagine there is enormous demand for violin players, it pays good
and you can find a job easily. So if you aren't 100% tone deaf you
might say : I can't find programming job at least not one that pays
well, so here's a good career choice for me,in the end everybody has
to earn their bread somehow. So you go to learn violin playing in 24
lessons course, buy violin for dummies book and got a job. You're
doing your job and got payed, than somebody comes asking you do play
Nicolo Paganini Fifth Caprice. Shit man we only do pop music, what the
hell do you need those kind of crup? So continue playing vanilla pop
at work and program at home why the bozo practices Fifth Caprice.

bobi

Kenny <kentilton@gmail.com> wrote:
+---------------
| define-symbol-macro?
| What the hell is that?
| s/b defsymmacro, I smell a Schemer.
+---------------

Indeed! See <http://rpw3.org/hacks/lisp/deflex.lisp>
for how a *former* Schemer uses DEFINE-SYMBOL-MACRO
to make life in a CL REPL a little more comfortable
(or a little more like Scheme, your choice). ;-} ;-}


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock <rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607

On 4 set, 06:10, Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Shit man we only do pop music, what the
> hell do you need those kind of crup? So continue playing vanilla pop
> at work and program at home why the bozo practices Fifth Caprice.

Yep. Shame there's an audience for well-crafted, ingenious music even
outside musicians themselves but not an audience for well-crafted,
ingenious code outside a few literate programmers, let alone users of
software made out of such code. Programmers work at the
backstage... :P

namekuseijin <namekuseijin@gmail.com> writes:

> On 4 set, 06:10, Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Shit man we only do pop music, what the
>> hell do you need those kind of crup? So continue playing vanilla pop
>> at work and program at home why the bozo practices Fifth Caprice.
>
> Yep. Shame there's an audience for well-crafted, ingenious music even
> outside musicians themselves but not an audience for well-crafted,
> ingenious code outside a few literate programmers, let alone users of
> software made out of such code. Programmers work at the
> backstage... :P

But when the front stage is occupied by a star such as Steve Jobs,
it's ok. Could be better, there could be a market for luxe computer
programs sold a price if you need to ask you don't have the means to
buy them, but I'm not sure we would be able to write them yet.
Perhaps some AI programmer could.

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

På Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:56:44 +0200, skrev Pascal J. Bourguignon
<pjb@informatimago.com>:

> namekuseijin <namekuseijin@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 4 set, 06:10, Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Shit man we only do pop music, what the
>>> hell do you need those kind of crup? So continue playing vanilla pop
>>> at work and program at home why the bozo practices Fifth Caprice.
>>
>> Yep. Shame there's an audience for well-crafted, ingenious music even
>> outside musicians themselves but not an audience for well-crafted,
>> ingenious code outside a few literate programmers, let alone users of
>> software made out of such code. Programmers work at the
>> backstage... :P
>
> But when the front stage is occupied by a star such as Steve Jobs,
> it's ok. Could be better, there could be a market for luxe computer
> programs sold a price if you need to ask you don't have the means to
> buy them, but I'm not sure we would be able to write them yet.
> Perhaps some AI programmer could.
>

Naw, I think Jobs has perfected the art of charging something for nothing.
Charging for making a copy of individual tunes.
Clearly making programs takes effort so there is better profit in just
copying other peoples work
(Admittably the whole industry is in on it and wants a piece of the cake.)
He in a inspiration to all gangsters out there.
Jobs motto should be "It's so dirty it must be legal!".

--------------
John Thingstad

On Aug 15, 11:42Â*am, "xah...@gmail.com" <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 11:00 am, Robert <irishhac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually it was a serious question. I don't know why all 4 responses
> > were flippant.
>
> > Subject matter expertise obviously matters as much as choice of
> > programming language. And if you're creating , say , your own web
> > server , then you get to choose the language. But in most jobs, the
> > choice is already made for you.
>
> Serious, eh?
>
> What is it, specifically, you want to know or discuss??
>
> > I can see certain areas where Lisp is likely the best choice, with
> > Python close behind ( both are much better at tree manipulation than C/
> > C++ ). Haskell is newer and more restrictive.
>
> you wanted to know the job market of lisp in game programing? in web
> programing? in sys admin? They are practically nil.
>
> If you have fairly above average IQ like me, then, my general advice
> for long-term career choices is that pursue what you like and the
> bosses will compete their heads off to employ you. While you are still
> in a shoehorning stage, you can meanwhile mop McDonald's toilets.
>
> If you are average IQ and need bread and butter soon, just learn Java,
> HTML and Javascript and sql and PHP, VisualBasic, perl.
>
> > But my question is about todays job market in large American cities.
>
> To get a general sense of job market for lisp or haskell in a
> geographic area, you can just do a search in job sites. Dice.com and
> monster.com are classics.
>
> > Also, many programming jobs are flooded with immigrants, so the effect
> > of globalisation on salaries is a relevant question, since American
> > society is much more open than Europe to asian immigrants.
>
> Hum? what is the question you have in mind exactly?
>
> You want to know what's lisper's average of salary in comparison to,
> say, the average of java programer's salary, in say, Kenny's town? You
> want the arithemetic mean or medium?
>
> I'm interested to know too. I don't mean to be off putting, but you'll
> have more chances of knowing these answers by asking a librarian in a
> library, or join a moderated forum on social science related studies.
>
> For general resources, you can start with:
> Â*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_outsourcing
>
> and follow its articles and references.
>
> Â* Xah
> ∑http://xahlee.org/
>
> ☄

high IQ lol! ha!!!