Job Market for Lisp and Haskell programmers, serious question.

Actually it was a serious question. I don't know why all 4 responses
were flippant.

Subject matter expertise obviously matters as much as choice of
programming language. And if you're creating , say , your own web
server , then you get to choose the language. But in most jobs, the
choice is already made for you.

I can see certain areas where Lisp is likely the best choice, with
Python close behind ( both are much better at tree manipulation than C/
C++ ). Haskell is newer and more restrictive.

But my question is about todays job market in large American cities.

Also, many programming jobs are flooded with immigrants, so the effect
of globalisation on salaries is a relevant question, since American
society is much more open than Europe to asian immigrants.

On Aug 15, 11:00 am, Robert <irishhac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually it was a serious question. I don't know why all 4 responses
> were flippant.
>
> Subject matter expertise obviously matters as much as choice of
> programming language. And if you're creating , say , your own web
> server , then you get to choose the language. But in most jobs, the
> choice is already made for you.

Serious, eh?

What is it, specifically, you want to know or discuss??

> I can see certain areas where Lisp is likely the best choice, with
> Python close behind ( both are much better at tree manipulation than C/
> C++ ). Haskell is newer and more restrictive.

you wanted to know the job market of lisp in game programing? in web
programing? in sys admin? They are practically nil.

If you have fairly above average IQ like me, then, my general advice
for long-term career choices is that pursue what you like and the
bosses will compete their heads off to employ you. While you are still
in a shoehorning stage, you can meanwhile mop McDonald's toilets.

If you are average IQ and need bread and butter soon, just learn Java,
HTML and Javascript and sql and PHP, VisualBasic, perl.

> But my question is about todays job market in large American cities.

To get a general sense of job market for lisp or haskell in a
geographic area, you can just do a search in job sites. Dice.com and
monster.com are classics.

> Also, many programming jobs are flooded with immigrants, so the effect
> of globalisation on salaries is a relevant question, since American
> society is much more open than Europe to asian immigrants.

Hum? what is the question you have in mind exactly?

You want to know what's lisper's average of salary in comparison to,
say, the average of java programer's salary, in say, Kenny's town? You
want the arithemetic mean or medium?

I'm interested to know too. I don't mean to be off putting, but you'll
have more chances of knowing these answers by asking a librarian in a
library, or join a moderated forum on social science related studies.

For general resources, you can start with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_outsourcing

and follow its articles and references.

Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Robert wrote:
> Actually it was a serious question. I don't know why all 4 responses
> were flippant.

We have a choice. Laugh or cry.

>
> Subject matter expertise obviously matters as much as choice of
> programming language. And if you're creating , say , your own web
> server , then you get to choose the language. But in most jobs, the
> choice is already made for you.
>
> I can see certain areas where Lisp is likely the best choice, with
> Python close behind ( both are much better at tree manipulation than C/
> C++ ). Haskell is newer and more restrictive.
>
> But my question is about todays job market in large American cities.

I cannot even find a COBOL job, and I looked. And I am so broke I cannot
even afford bartender's school. It's Algebra or bust!

>
> Also, many programming jobs are flooded with immigrants, so the effect
> of globalisation on salaries is a relevant question, since American
> society is much more open than Europe to asian immigrants.
>

True. And it does not matter, if the colored people can't come to your
jobs, the jobs will travel to them.

kt

--

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/

"xahlee@gmail.com" <xahlee@gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 15 Aug 2008:
> If you have fairly above average IQ like me

Really? What's your IQ, then? I'm curious what number corresponds to
"fairly above average".
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://don.geddis.org/ don@geddis.org
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
-- John Kenneth Galbraith

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:55:11 -0700, Don Geddis wrote:

> "xahlee@gmail.com" <xahlee@gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 15 Aug 2008:
>> If you have fairly above average IQ like me
>
> Really? What's your IQ, then? I'm curious what number corresponds to
> "fairly above average".

To quote the Hungarian poet Sándor Weöres (my translation):

Pete is stoopid
Kate is stoopid
I am the only smart one
I even have brains up my ass

On Aug 15, 4:55 pm, Don Geddis <d...@geddis.org> wrote:
> "xah...@gmail.com" <xah...@gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 15 Aug 2008:
>
> > If you have fairly above average IQ like me
>
> Really? What's your IQ, then? I'm curious what number corresponds to
> "fairly above average".

So, if i disclose my IQ, you disclose yours?

Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

On Aug 15, 7:42*pm, "xah...@gmail.com" <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have fairly above average IQ like me

With an above average IQ, you should be able to put an intelligent
guess at Robert's IQ from his writing.

Personally, I thought he seemed to also have an above average IQ and
could safely ignore telling him which trends and technologies to go
learn.

Anyway, this page might help and also gives a good indication as to
the job market, practically nil.
Luckily, there are practically nil fellow lispers to compete with you!
http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/

Robert <irishhacker@gmail.com> wrote in news:503379a4-032c-471c-a9d6-
1076756b209c@v57g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> Actually it was a serious question. I don't know why all 4 responses
> were flippant.

It's because "Lisp Programmer" and "Haskell Programmer" don't really make
sense as job titles. Lisp and Haskell programming is not low level grunt
work. You don't find many professional Lisp managers whose careers are to
manage groups of Lisp programmers. It would be far more common that one
person would do all the work of the whole project. The job title might be
vice president or something like that.

"xahlee@gmail.com" <xahlee@gmail.com> wrote on Sat, 16 Aug 2008:
> On Aug 15, 4:55 pm, Don Geddis <d...@geddis.org> wrote:
>> "xah...@gmail.com" <xah...@gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 15 Aug 2008:
>> > If you have fairly above average IQ like me
>>
>> Really? What's your IQ, then? I'm curious what number corresponds to
>> "fairly above average".
>
> So, if i disclose my IQ, you disclose yours?

I've been making no claims about my IQ.

You're the one who seemed to have no problem discussing your own IQ.
So I was curious what the number was. After all, you brought it up.

As for me: I will admit this: my IQ, as measured by clinical professionals,
is within a few standard deviations of normal. At most 4-5 deviations from
average, surely not more than that.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://don.geddis.org/ don@geddis.org
If you want to sue somebody, just get a little plastic skeleton and lay it in
their yard. Then tell them their ants ate your baby.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey

On Aug 16, 8:41 am, Don Geddis <d...@geddis.org> wrote:
>
> As for me: I will admit this: my IQ, as measured by clinical professionals,
> is within a few standard deviations of normal. At most 4-5 deviations from
> average, surely not more than that.

Boy, that's humble!

Even 4 standard deviations out makes you about 1 in 30,000; for 5,
it's about 1 in 3 million. So yes, "surely not more than that"

-- Scott