Kenny does the Web! <spit> - lisp

On 2008-09-06 15:40:46 +0100, "John Thingstad" <jpthing@online.no> said:

> Objective-J is just a thin layer of java-script to support
> object orientation. You don't need a separate download
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It probably would be more precise to state: "class based OO",
because JavaScript is already OO (just not class based). And
frankly, I'm quite glad that the "prototype based" JavaScript
is becoming more mainstream, thus freeing us from the "everything
is a class" tyranny :-)

Sorry for neing such a nitpicker, but I felt it had to be said :-)

OTOH, that Objective-J layer (as embedded JavaScript) is not
so important per se, as is the large framework (Foundation
& AppKit) that help put "graphical stuff" on the screen in
a way that users can interact with, almost being able to
forget they're dealing with a browser and the internet.

The corporate world wants "web apps", but end users favor
"desktop apps". Cappuccino seems to bridge that gap.
--
JFB

On Sat, 2008-09-06 at 16:30 +0200, Lars Rune Nøstdal wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-09-06 at 01:37 +0100, verec wrote:
> > On 2008-09-01 13:04:16 +0100, Kenny <kentilton@gmail.com> said:
> >
> > > MWAUHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHA!!!!!
> > >
> > > Now there's no place left to hide!
> > >
> > > MWUAHAHAHAAAHAHAHA!!!
> > >
> > > Thx to a nice example from Franz I be doing Ajax. One problem: I have
> > > to replicate a RoR web page that looks like a Form 1040. Meanwhile I
> > > notice books have been written on how to get a browser to put things on
> > > a row instead of in a column or verse vicea.
> > >
> > > My mission is more about doing fancier things faster on the server
> > > side, but I do not know how much ugliness I can get away with on the
> > > client side. I am doing my best in hand-to-hand fighting with HTML and
> > > CSS, but I am wondering if Real Web Designers use a WYSIWYG pagebuilder
> > > to get the HTML and CSS and then fill in the JS.
> > >
> > > No? Yes? If so, recommendations________________________?
> > >
> > > kt
> >
> > Juts in case you missed it: http://cappuccino.org is a ... Hum ...
> > interesting approach. In a nutshell: no CSS, no HTML, 100% JavaScript ....
> > ... Uhh ... well ... Objective-J which is a port of Apple/GNUStep
> > Cocoa framework to do interesting stuff on the client. Apparently works
> > on all of most modern browsers with decemt javascript engines.
> >
> > The learning curve might be steep ... but you surely can envision
> > emitting those Objective-J/JavaScript thingies from your own Lisp DSL?
> >
> > Probably worth more than a simple cursory look: their demos
> > http://280slides.com is quite impressive (I tested on XP/Firefox
> > and OS X 10.5/Safari) :-)
> >
> > Given that everybody (Firefox, Safari/WebKit, and now Google Chrome) seems
> > to be betting on high performance JavaScript engines on the client,
> > that might be the (not so long term) choice par excellence! :-)
> >
> > HTH
> > --
> > JFB
> >
>
> What about something like ParenScript? It goes Lispy DSL --> JavaScript
> directly, instead of doing Lispy DSL --> Objective-J --> JavaScript.
>
> ..and yeah, with Firefox-3.1 and Chorme we're moving towards JavaScript
> becoming the ASM or C of the web. The potential here is very
> interesting.
>
> It's becoming the only thing that runs everywhere _instantly_ without
> people having to install or "do" anything; just share the URL, and
> networking is "built in".

Quite fun to play with this actually; combining ParenScript and
SymbolicWeb:

SW> (run (jss (defun test (x y)
(alert (+ x y))))
*view*)
"function test(x, y) {
alert(x + y);
};
"

SW> (run (jss (test 123 321)) *view*)


...and an alert-box pops up in the browser. Returning values from the client:

SW> (run (jss (defun test (x y)
(return (+ x y))))
*view*)
"function test(x, y) {
return x + y;
};
"
SW> (run (jss (return (test 123 321))) *view* :async-p nil)
"444"


...or with JSON to get the right type:

SW> (run (jss (return (test 123 321))) *view* :async-p nil :json-p t)
444



--
Lars Rune Nøstdal || AJAX/Comet GUI type stuff for Common Lisp
http://nostdal.org/ || http://groups.google.com/group/symbolicweb