Investment account question

Hi

I'm trying to setup a Pension Account and find this quite confusing. I hope
that you can assist me.

I want to track the "Account Value" but do not want this to be reflected in
the "Total Account Balance". Is this possible?
I would just like to track the monthly contributions - is this done via
"Bills and Desposits"?

Thank you

I'm not sure Investment Account is the best bet for a pension, but there are
infinite varieties of pension accounts, so maybe it is appropriate for your
case. Are we talking a 401(k)/403(b) type of account? A defined contribution
account of some other flavor?

What's the difference you want to see between "Account Value" and "Total
Account Balance"? Future Value as a pension? Probably no way to get there
from here since your plan's formula for conversion to annuity, et., can't be
taught to Money.

Yes, you could track monthly contributions via some account register and
some recurring transaction setup in Bills & Deposits. Exactly what kinds
depends 110% on the nature of your plan and contributions.

I wish I could give you narrower answers.

"April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
news:eBc3ENHzHHA.4184@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> I'm trying to setup a Pension Account and find this quite confusing. I
> hope that you can assist me.
>
> I want to track the "Account Value" but do not want this to be reflected
> in the "Total Account Balance". Is this possible?
> I would just like to track the monthly contributions - is this done via
> "Bills and Desposits"?

I have 2 pensions which are: The first one which is non-contributory so I
just want to track the increase in value every 6 months when receiving the
statement. The second pension is the one I contribute monthly - for this
one I would like to track the payments when they send me a statement every
month.

Please can you advise the best account to setup these Pensions plans, and
also track the recurring transactions.

When I mentioned "Total Account Balance", I was refering to the value at the
bottom right corner under "Account List".

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:%236ZNkeIzHHA.2484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> I'm not sure Investment Account is the best bet for a pension, but there
> are infinite varieties of pension accounts, so maybe it is appropriate for
> your case. Are we talking a 401(k)/403(b) type of account? A defined
> contribution account of some other flavor?
>
> What's the difference you want to see between "Account Value" and "Total
> Account Balance"? Future Value as a pension? Probably no way to get there
> from here since your plan's formula for conversion to annuity, et., can't
> be taught to Money.
>
> Yes, you could track monthly contributions via some account register and
> some recurring transaction setup in Bills & Deposits. Exactly what kinds
> depends 110% on the nature of your plan and contributions.
>
> I wish I could give you narrower answers.
>
> "April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:eBc3ENHzHHA.4184@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> I'm trying to setup a Pension Account and find this quite confusing. I
>> hope that you can assist me.
>>
>> I want to track the "Account Value" but do not want this to be reflected
>> in the "Total Account Balance". Is this possible?
>> I would just like to track the monthly contributions - is this done via
>> "Bills and Desposits"?
>
>

For the first plan, I'm thinking maybe you just want some kind of cash or
asset account and you'd just adjust its balance when you see statements. But
see caveat #1 below.

For the second, you could also use a cash or asset account. But see caveat
#1 below.

As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm guessing
that these contributions come from a payroll deduction. If so, and you track
the gross and deductions in Paycheck transactions, just use an additional
deduction (before or after tax, as appropriate) and set it up as
Transfer:[name of the account you created]. If this comes out of every nth
paycheck, this gets a harder since Money doesn't allow negative
paychecks--to schedule it as a separate Paycheck on a different frequency
since the normal recurring one will be the same for every recurrence. You
could use just a recurring Transfer from the account where your Paycheck
deposits on the theory that the real deposit will not be lower than the
Money Paycheck by the amount of the transfer you setup on the alternate
frequency. But, if these are Before Tax contributions, this strategy will
hose up Tax Estimator. Again, you haven't quite given enough details to give
an exact answer. But see caveat #2 below.

As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total at
the bottom: you just can't do it. Which brings me to caveat #1: if these
plans are not part of your net worth--and I think few of them consider them
that way and they usually are not just a cash amount but are factored
through all kinds of annuity factors and payout formulas and so forth before
you ever see a dime--maybe tracking them in Money at all is not really
worthwhile. Some accounts are best tracked outside of Money or in that
famous add-in to Money for all of the things money doesn't do well:
Microsoft Excel. Back to the contributory one. Assuming it's just some kind
of "cash balance plan", there is little you can gain in day-to-day personal
financial management--or even the using, say, Money's Lifetime Planner--by
modeling the account in Money. For most purposes in Money you could just
treat your contributions as an expense--just like you do, say,
insurance--and move on.

When I got traded to a new employer earlier this year, I became the
less-than-thrilled recipient of a new "cash balance" pension. It has all
this "feel good" "deposit" of "credit" amounts and so forth. But the formula
for payout is so many layer removed from that cash balance that I've decided
not to track it at all in Money. I'll put in some estimate of its monthly
payout in Lifetime Planner and check the statements--maybe even create a
spreadsheet in Excel to cross check with the company's "Pension Estimator"
tool. But after I read the details I quickly decided that setting it up as a
Money account was just a whole lot more trouble than it would ever be worth.

Caveat #2: answers re. setting up recurring transactions assume you are
using M04 or less or M05/6 with Advanced Bills or M07 Deluxe or above with
Advanced Bills and not MEss (Money Essential).

"April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
news:eMx$yp0zHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I have 2 pensions which are: The first one which is non-contributory so I
>just want to track the increase in value every 6 months when receiving the
>statement. The second pension is the one I contribute monthly - for this
>one I would like to track the payments when they send me a statement every
>month.
>
> Please can you advise the best account to setup these Pensions plans, and
> also track the recurring transactions.
>
> When I mentioned "Total Account Balance", I was refering to the value at
> the bottom right corner under "Account List".

Note also that my previous answer assumes that you are somewhat familiar
with scheduling recurring Expenses and Paychecks in Bills & Deposits, so it
skips the "click here, click there" details. If that's a bad assumption, let
us know.

"April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
news:eMx$yp0zHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Please can you advise the best account to setup these Pensions plans, and
> also track the recurring transactions.

Thanks you for help. Please see me my comments inline.

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:uXY1iJ4zHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> For the first plan, I'm thinking maybe you just want some kind of cash or
> asset account and you'd just adjust its balance when you see statements.
> But see caveat #1 below.
>
> For the second, you could also use a cash or asset account. But see caveat
> #1 below.
>
> As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm guessing
> that these contributions come from a payroll deduction. If so, and you
> track the gross and deductions in Paycheck transactions, just use an
> additional deduction (before or after tax, as appropriate) and set it up
> as Transfer:[name of the account you created]. If this comes out of every
> nth paycheck, this gets a harder since Money doesn't allow negative
> paychecks--to schedule it as a separate Paycheck on a different frequency
> since the normal recurring one will be the same for every recurrence. You
> could use just a recurring Transfer from the account where your Paycheck
> deposits on the theory that the real deposit will not be lower than the
> Money Paycheck by the amount of the transfer you setup on the alternate
> frequency. But, if these are Before Tax contributions, this strategy will
> hose up Tax Estimator. Again, you haven't quite given enough details to
> give an exact answer. But see caveat #2 below.

I decided a few months ago not to use Paycheck method as I have another
method setup in Excel.

>
> As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total at
> the bottom: you just can't do it. Which brings me to caveat #1: if these
> plans are not part of your net worth--and I think few of them consider
> them that way and they usually are not just a cash amount but are factored
> through all kinds of annuity factors and payout formulas and so forth
> before you ever see a dime--maybe tracking them in Money at all is not
> really worthwhile. Some accounts are best tracked outside of Money or in
> that famous add-in to Money for all of the things money doesn't do well:
> Microsoft Excel. Back to the contributory one. Assuming it's just some
> kind of "cash balance plan", there is little you can gain in day-to-day
> personal financial management--or even the using, say, Money's Lifetime
> Planner--by modeling the account in Money. For most purposes in Money you
> could just treat your contributions as an expense--just like you do, say,
> insurance--and move on.

Yes, I think it's a cash balance plan. I just contribution a fixed amount
every month and then it goes towards my pension account and they reinvest
it. This pension cannot be touched until retirement. I would very much
like to track the contrubtions anyway, and your suggestion of treating it as
an expense sounds good to me.

With regards to setting it up, please can you confirm the process for
treating this an an expense. Would you recomend setting up a monthly
Recurring Bill and enter the Payee Details as "ABC Pension company" (as an
example). Then just check the balance under the "Payees" section. Or would
it be possible to setup this under the "Categories" section as an
alternative?

>
> When I got traded to a new employer earlier this year, I became the
> less-than-thrilled recipient of a new "cash balance" pension. It has all
> this "feel good" "deposit" of "credit" amounts and so forth. But the
> formula for payout is so many layer removed from that cash balance that
> I've decided not to track it at all in Money. I'll put in some estimate of
> its monthly payout in Lifetime Planner and check the statements--maybe
> even create a spreadsheet in Excel to cross check with the company's
> "Pension Estimator" tool. But after I read the details I quickly decided
> that setting it up as a Money account was just a whole lot more trouble
> than it would ever be worth.
>
> Caveat #2: answers re. setting up recurring transactions assume you are
> using M04 or less or M05/6 with Advanced Bills or M07 Deluxe or above with
> Advanced Bills and not MEss (Money Essential).

Yes, I am familiar with the basics of setting up Bills but I just wanted to
clarify if I have the correct steps. Please check my answer above.

Thanks and kind regards.
>
> "April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:eMx$yp0zHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>I have 2 pensions which are: The first one which is non-contributory so I
>>just want to track the increase in value every 6 months when receiving the
>>statement. The second pension is the one I contribute monthly - for this
>>one I would like to track the payments when they send me a statement every
>>month.
>>
>> Please can you advise the best account to setup these Pensions plans, and
>> also track the recurring transactions.
>>
>> When I mentioned "Total Account Balance", I was refering to the value at
>> the bottom right corner under "Account List".
>
>

You know the drill...

"April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
news:u77P$sf0HHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm
>> guessing that these contributions come from a payroll deduction...
>
> I decided a few months ago not to use Paycheck method as I have another
> method setup in Excel.

OK.

>> As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total
>> at the bottom: you just can't do it...
>
> Yes, I think it's a cash balance plan. I just contribution a fixed amount
> every month and then it goes towards my pension account and they reinvest
> it. This pension cannot be touched until retirement. I would very much
> like to track the contrubtions anyway, and your suggestion of treating it
> as an expense sounds good to me.
>
> With regards to setting it up, please can you confirm the process for
> treating this an an expense. Would you recomend setting up a monthly
> Recurring Bill and enter the Payee Details as "ABC Pension company" (as an
> example). Then just check the balance under the "Payees" section. Or
> would it be possible to setup this under the "Categories" section as an
> alternative?

I'd probably setup the monthly recurring bill with both a unique Payee and a
unique Category. I'd use a Payee so I recognize the name and a Category so
that I got better reporting and so forth. Maybe a new top level expense
category like Pension Contributions or something similar. If you type the
name you want into the category field, Money will prompt to make sure you
want to create it if it doesn't already exist. Oh, and noting that you
aren't using Paychecks but assuming this comes out of one, be careful adding
this expense as the net deposit you made somewhere will need to be
"increased" by the amount of this new Expense transaction you are going to
enter in the same account or you will never get the account balance to
reconcile.

Thanks... I'm going to try this out and then I will reply back to you
shortly..........

Kind regards.

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:es0ubUg0HHA.4916@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> You know the drill...
>
> "April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:u77P$sf0HHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm
>>> guessing that these contributions come from a payroll deduction...
>>
>> I decided a few months ago not to use Paycheck method as I have another
>> method setup in Excel.
>
> OK.
>
>>> As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total
>>> at the bottom: you just can't do it...
>>
>> Yes, I think it's a cash balance plan. I just contribution a fixed
>> amount every month and then it goes towards my pension account and they
>> reinvest it. This pension cannot be touched until retirement. I would
>> very much like to track the contrubtions anyway, and your suggestion of
>> treating it as an expense sounds good to me.
>>
>> With regards to setting it up, please can you confirm the process for
>> treating this an an expense. Would you recomend setting up a monthly
>> Recurring Bill and enter the Payee Details as "ABC Pension company" (as
>> an example). Then just check the balance under the "Payees" section. Or
>> would it be possible to setup this under the "Categories" section as an
>> alternative?
>
> I'd probably setup the monthly recurring bill with both a unique Payee and
> a unique Category. I'd use a Payee so I recognize the name and a Category
> so that I got better reporting and so forth. Maybe a new top level expense
> category like Pension Contributions or something similar. If you type the
> name you want into the category field, Money will prompt to make sure you
> want to create it if it doesn't already exist. Oh, and noting that you
> aren't using Paychecks but assuming this comes out of one, be careful
> adding this expense as the net deposit you made somewhere will need to be
> "increased" by the amount of this new Expense transaction you are going to
> enter in the same account or you will never get the account balance to
> reconcile.
>

Thanks... I'm going to try this out and then I will reply back to you
shortly..........

Kind regards.

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:es0ubUg0HHA.4916@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> You know the drill...
>
> "April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:u77P$sf0HHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm
>>> guessing that these contributions come from a payroll deduction...
>>
>> I decided a few months ago not to use Paycheck method as I have another
>> method setup in Excel.
>
> OK.
>
>>> As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total
>>> at the bottom: you just can't do it...
>>
>> Yes, I think it's a cash balance plan. I just contribution a fixed
>> amount every month and then it goes towards my pension account and they
>> reinvest it. This pension cannot be touched until retirement. I would
>> very much like to track the contrubtions anyway, and your suggestion of
>> treating it as an expense sounds good to me.
>>
>> With regards to setting it up, please can you confirm the process for
>> treating this an an expense. Would you recomend setting up a monthly
>> Recurring Bill and enter the Payee Details as "ABC Pension company" (as
>> an example). Then just check the balance under the "Payees" section. Or
>> would it be possible to setup this under the "Categories" section as an
>> alternative?
>
> I'd probably setup the monthly recurring bill with both a unique Payee and
> a unique Category. I'd use a Payee so I recognize the name and a Category
> so that I got better reporting and so forth. Maybe a new top level expense
> category like Pension Contributions or something similar. If you type the
> name you want into the category field, Money will prompt to make sure you
> want to create it if it doesn't already exist. Oh, and noting that you
> aren't using Paychecks but assuming this comes out of one, be careful
> adding this expense as the net deposit you made somewhere will need to be
> "increased" by the amount of this new Expense transaction you are going to
> enter in the same account or you will never get the account balance to
> reconcile.
>

Sorry for not reply sooner ... I hope that this trail is still being read.

My comment is inline below:

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:es0ubUg0HHA.4916@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> You know the drill...
>
> "April" <noreply@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:u77P$sf0HHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> As to tracking the contributions with recurring transactions, I'm
>>> guessing that these contributions come from a payroll deduction...
>>
>> I decided a few months ago not to use Paycheck method as I have another
>> method setup in Excel.
>
> OK.
>
>>> As to having the account balance show up but not totaled into the total
>>> at the bottom: you just can't do it...
>>
>> Yes, I think it's a cash balance plan. I just contribution a fixed
>> amount every month and then it goes towards my pension account and they
>> reinvest it. This pension cannot be touched until retirement. I would
>> very much like to track the contrubtions anyway, and your suggestion of
>> treating it as an expense sounds good to me.
>>
>> With regards to setting it up, please can you confirm the process for
>> treating this an an expense. Would you recomend setting up a monthly
>> Recurring Bill and enter the Payee Details as "ABC Pension company" (as
>> an example). Then just check the balance under the "Payees" section. Or
>> would it be possible to setup this under the "Categories" section as an
>> alternative?
>
> I'd probably setup the monthly recurring bill with both a unique Payee and
> a unique Category. I'd use a Payee so I recognize the name and a Category
> so that I got better reporting and so forth. Maybe a new top level expense
> category like Pension Contributions or something similar. If you type the
> name you want into the category field, Money will prompt to make sure you
> want to create it if it doesn't already exist. Oh, and noting that you
> aren't using Paychecks but assuming this comes out of one, be careful
> adding this expense as the net deposit you made somewhere will need to be
> "increased" by the amount of this new Expense transaction you are going to
> enter in the same account or you will never get the account balance to
> reconcile.
>
The pension does come out of a paycheck. What do you mean by :
<<be careful adding
> this expense as the net deposit you made somewhere will need to be
> "increased" by the amount of this new Expense transaction you are going to
> enter in the same account or you will never get the account balance to
> reconcile. >>
To clarify, do you mean that if I setup a new Bill/Deposit, I need to setup
another account to make a 'Transfer'? What would you suggest a call the 2nd
account? It's a little 'messy' as I'd preer to keep a minimum of
accounts.....

Or is it possible just to have one account, but you did say that this would
"increase" my total amount.... Thanks again.