Future Rollover IRA in the Lifetime Planner

I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to show
this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon withdrawal
if I can just get it into the system.

Any ideas?

I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.

Thanks in advance

The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't); only
when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income. Am I
missing something?

--
Michael Gordon


"BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
>I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
> retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to show
> this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
> immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
> withdrawal
> if I can just get it into the system.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
>
> Thanks in advance
>

That's what I thought: as long as the existing account has retirement (tax
free accumulation) status, LP doesn't care.

"Michael Gordon" <gordonm@denison.edu> wrote in message
news:OwiZPVA8HHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't); only
> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income. Am I
> missing something?
>
> --
> Michael Gordon
>
>
> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
>>I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
>> retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to
>> show
>> this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
>> immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
>> withdrawal
>> if I can just get it into the system.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>
>

There only seems to be 3 options: use it for current expenses, save it in my
taxable accounts, or leave it out of the planner entirely. There does not
seem to be any option for doing a rollover. Does Money 2007 or the new 2008
have better options?


"Michael Gordon" wrote:

> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't); only
> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income. Am I
> missing something?
>
> --
> Michael Gordon
>
>
> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
> >I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
> > retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to show
> > this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
> > immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
> > withdrawal
> > if I can just get it into the system.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
>
>
>

I guess I'm still not seeing the problem - sorry. I would establish a new
tax-deferred IRA account and then transfer the money from your retirement
plan. This assumes you're tracking your retirement plan in Money with a
different tax-deferred account.

--
Michael Gordon


"BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A5C6B0C4-F95D-414E-8FD0-E6BC63D67C63@microsoft.com...
> There only seems to be 3 options: use it for current expenses, save it in
> my
> taxable accounts, or leave it out of the planner entirely. There does not
> seem to be any option for doing a rollover. Does Money 2007 or the new
> 2008
> have better options?
>
>
> "Michael Gordon" wrote:
>
>> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't); only
>> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income. Am I
>> missing something?
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gordon
>>
>>
>> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
>> >I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
>> > retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to
>> > show
>> > this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
>> > immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
>> > withdrawal
>> > if I can just get it into the system.
>> >
>> > Any ideas?
>> >
>> > I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>>
>>
>>

I'm not explaining this well.
I go into the Lifetime Planner /Income / Other Income
Then I select New Income to be recieved on 1/1/2010 for a specific quantity.
The next question is What Do You want to do with this money?
Use it for Annual Expenses, etc.
Save it in my taxable accounts

There is not option to roll it into an IRA and the planner immediately shows
the taxes due. There is an option to set the taxes at zero, but then it is
never taxed, which is also not correct.

I tried to create a new tax-deferred IRA account and post date the income
entry for the pension, but the Planner handles it as if the funds are in the
account today, regardless of the date entered.

Are you suggesting that I treat the pension as if I've already recieved the
money and it is in an IRA account? That would probably work for the planner,
but its really not part of my current net worth. Is that how most people
handle their future pension values?

Thanks for taking the time to work with me on this.
BruceK





"Michael Gordon" wrote:

> I guess I'm still not seeing the problem - sorry. I would establish a new
> tax-deferred IRA account and then transfer the money from your retirement
> plan. This assumes you're tracking your retirement plan in Money with a
> different tax-deferred account.
>
> --
> Michael Gordon
>
>
> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:A5C6B0C4-F95D-414E-8FD0-E6BC63D67C63@microsoft.com...
> > There only seems to be 3 options: use it for current expenses, save it in
> > my
> > taxable accounts, or leave it out of the planner entirely. There does not
> > seem to be any option for doing a rollover. Does Money 2007 or the new
> > 2008
> > have better options?
> >
> >
> > "Michael Gordon" wrote:
> >
> >> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't); only
> >> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income. Am I
> >> missing something?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Gordon
> >>
> >>
> >> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
> >> >I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when I
> >> > retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how to
> >> > show
> >> > this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
> >> > immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
> >> > withdrawal
> >> > if I can just get it into the system.
> >> >
> >> > Any ideas?
> >> >
> >> > I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

You are creating a taxable event when nothing really exists. If you really
have a pension that translates into a transferrable cash balance, then I
track the growing cash balance as a retirement account. If you have a
classic pension that throws off just income, then you treat it as added
income that comes on-line at some point. Social Security is an example of
that type. Though the SS cash flows have an inputed "cash balance", it's
not part of your net worth.

I have used the Other income line for large life insurance tax free payment
as substitute for inheritance. I show it as tax free income (single
occurrence). LP tracks the income from that amount, if any left after
projected cash needs that year, in overall asset rate of return and then
taxes that income. Since no real world mechanism exists to transfer that
amount into a retirement account, I believe that's why LP does not have it
as an option. It would work for you if you planned to put pension balance
in taxable account. But that's not your intention. It sounds like you
tried this method, but had no way to keep in tax free account.

I'd recommend that you track as net worth the balance you've earned thus far
and update it periodically.

"BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:557F7C6D-9633-4B48-8729-0C437FEC8E85@microsoft.com...
> I'm not explaining this well.
> I go into the Lifetime Planner /Income / Other Income
> Then I select New Income to be recieved on 1/1/2010 for a specific
> quantity.
> The next question is What Do You want to do with this money?
> Use it for Annual Expenses, etc.
> Save it in my taxable accounts
>
> There is not option to roll it into an IRA and the planner immediately
> shows
> the taxes due. There is an option to set the taxes at zero, but then it
> is
> never taxed, which is also not correct.
>
> I tried to create a new tax-deferred IRA account and post date the income
> entry for the pension, but the Planner handles it as if the funds are in
> the
> account today, regardless of the date entered.
>
> Are you suggesting that I treat the pension as if I've already recieved
> the
> money and it is in an IRA account? That would probably work for the
> planner,
> but its really not part of my current net worth. Is that how most people
> handle their future pension values?
>
> Thanks for taking the time to work with me on this.
> BruceK
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Gordon" wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm still not seeing the problem - sorry. I would establish a new
>> tax-deferred IRA account and then transfer the money from your retirement
>> plan. This assumes you're tracking your retirement plan in Money with a
>> different tax-deferred account.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gordon
>>
>>
>> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:A5C6B0C4-F95D-414E-8FD0-E6BC63D67C63@microsoft.com...
>> > There only seems to be 3 options: use it for current expenses, save it
>> > in
>> > my
>> > taxable accounts, or leave it out of the planner entirely. There does
>> > not
>> > seem to be any option for doing a rollover. Does Money 2007 or the new
>> > 2008
>> > have better options?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Michael Gordon" wrote:
>> >
>> >> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't);
>> >> only
>> >> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income.
>> >> Am I
>> >> missing something?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Gordon
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
>> >> >I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when
>> >> >I
>> >> > retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how
>> >> > to
>> >> > show
>> >> > this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
>> >> > immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
>> >> > withdrawal
>> >> > if I can just get it into the system.
>> >> >
>> >> > Any ideas?
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

I guess thats the best approach. I'll create an IRA account showing the
current worth of the lump sum payment from my pension. The Lifetime Planner
then utilizes my taxable investments first and then utilizes the pension
dollars after the already taxed dollars are consumed, which is the proper
order at least.

Thanks for the help.
BruceK


"Michael J. Blazin" wrote:

> You are creating a taxable event when nothing really exists. If you really
> have a pension that translates into a transferrable cash balance, then I
> track the growing cash balance as a retirement account. If you have a
> classic pension that throws off just income, then you treat it as added
> income that comes on-line at some point. Social Security is an example of
> that type. Though the SS cash flows have an inputed "cash balance", it's
> not part of your net worth.
>
> I have used the Other income line for large life insurance tax free payment
> as substitute for inheritance. I show it as tax free income (single
> occurrence). LP tracks the income from that amount, if any left after
> projected cash needs that year, in overall asset rate of return and then
> taxes that income. Since no real world mechanism exists to transfer that
> amount into a retirement account, I believe that's why LP does not have it
> as an option. It would work for you if you planned to put pension balance
> in taxable account. But that's not your intention. It sounds like you
> tried this method, but had no way to keep in tax free account.
>
> I'd recommend that you track as net worth the balance you've earned thus far
> and update it periodically.
>
> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:557F7C6D-9633-4B48-8729-0C437FEC8E85@microsoft.com...
> > I'm not explaining this well.
> > I go into the Lifetime Planner /Income / Other Income
> > Then I select New Income to be recieved on 1/1/2010 for a specific
> > quantity.
> > The next question is What Do You want to do with this money?
> > Use it for Annual Expenses, etc.
> > Save it in my taxable accounts
> >
> > There is not option to roll it into an IRA and the planner immediately
> > shows
> > the taxes due. There is an option to set the taxes at zero, but then it
> > is
> > never taxed, which is also not correct.
> >
> > I tried to create a new tax-deferred IRA account and post date the income
> > entry for the pension, but the Planner handles it as if the funds are in
> > the
> > account today, regardless of the date entered.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that I treat the pension as if I've already recieved
> > the
> > money and it is in an IRA account? That would probably work for the
> > planner,
> > but its really not part of my current net worth. Is that how most people
> > handle their future pension values?
> >
> > Thanks for taking the time to work with me on this.
> > BruceK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Michael Gordon" wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I'm still not seeing the problem - sorry. I would establish a new
> >> tax-deferred IRA account and then transfer the money from your retirement
> >> plan. This assumes you're tracking your retirement plan in Money with a
> >> different tax-deferred account.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Gordon
> >>
> >>
> >> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:A5C6B0C4-F95D-414E-8FD0-E6BC63D67C63@microsoft.com...
> >> > There only seems to be 3 options: use it for current expenses, save it
> >> > in
> >> > my
> >> > taxable accounts, or leave it out of the planner entirely. There does
> >> > not
> >> > seem to be any option for doing a rollover. Does Money 2007 or the new
> >> > 2008
> >> > have better options?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Michael Gordon" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The transfer (rollover) won't be seen as a taxable event (it isn't);
> >> >> only
> >> >> when you start withdrawing from the IRA will this be taxable income.
> >> >> Am I
> >> >> missing something?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Michael Gordon
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "BruceK" <BruceK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:319BEFD1-7326-4757-A860-DBEB3E740EBB@microsoft.com...
> >> >> >I expect to roll over my retirement pension lump sum into an IRA when
> >> >> >I
> >> >> > retire in order to defer taxes for a while. I cant figure out how
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > show
> >> >> > this in the Lifetime planner as any income seems to be either taxed
> >> >> > immediately or not at all. The planner will handle the taxes upon
> >> >> > withdrawal
> >> >> > if I can just get it into the system.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any ideas?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm running Money 2006 Deluxe at this point.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks in advance
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>