Game proposal: The Gripping Hand...

In article <rjpjr0lfvchmikv4kd91uk9v2imbhbpsoe@4ax.com>,
Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote:

> A game about a race somewhat like the Moties could work out. Trying
> to do it exactly runs into issues related to any book-based game, but
> also in this case, there are only a few high-power leaders you can
> effectively play. Everyone else isn't a mover or shaker, and isn't
> likely to become so. As an RPG, that might not matter, as playing an
> interesting role is more important than having power or control over
> anything significant.

I had considered that, and I could maybe see going in that direction if
the game was MMP, but it isn't very logical to switch from one character
type to another unless you do drop the Mote story concept and create a
new one, and I'm not sure how happy any player would be stuck into one
specific role indefinitely (ex: I think I'd get sick of negotiating
*all* the time, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a brownie).

However, you might be able to alleviate the problem of boring leadership
by A) making it very challenging to build your family, requiring tough
decisions on where to focus your resources (though this isn't a new
concept), and B) letting the territory you occupy heavily influence your
role in the game - one aspect of the book series that I neglected to
mention (though it sounds like you may have read them) is the importance
of the territory types and locations (i.e., land, air, water,
satellites, space stations, etc.). In the books there are endless
variations on the Motie family that are based on these factors and more.


> I know that Niven has licensed some of his works for games already,
> and someone may have the license for this series. The human side of
> it is a Pournelle creation, the Moties shared (the only books in the
> series with Niven involve the Moties).

That's interesting - I wasn't aware of that. I assume none of those have
turned into actual games, though?


> I *do* think that it wouldn't
> be easy to get a license to do a game which is based on the books, but
> not closely. Authors don't like to see their works mangled by others.
> So the price tag might be much more than just money -- it would mean a
> commitment by the authors to monitor, and perhaps even approve
> developments.

That sounds great to me (a faithful rendition), but I realize that could
be a tremendous headache for the developers involved.


<snip>
> The political complexities of alliances and owernership would make
> for a good game, as long as the system handles it well. By the Moties
> rules, war is much like a game, the loser, upon accepting surrender,
> becomes entirely loyal to the winner. Makes it much easier to cope
> with human player gamesmanship, where actions are taken simply to win,
> if the species itself runs things that way.

Those are the sort of aspects that I feel would make this a powerful
concept - there would be a tremendous amount of strategic options at
your disposal (something that in the past I've felt most of the popular
empire-type games fell short on, but I haven't played many of the more
recent ones).

This is all great feedback. Again, I'm not getting my hopes up about
this, but anything's possible (however unlikely). I guess I mainly just
like the series so much that I want to see some sort of continuation,
especially if it's one I can participate in.

_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
whit_news1 ---at--- angledend.com

In article <gcidnRNIIIy-mifcRVn-gw@speakeasy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <max@alcyone.com> wrote:

> Indeed. In the past Niven has been very picky about licensing his works
> for other media, and it's quite likely that someone without a proven
> track record and just a vague idea, even if Niven thought it was very
> good, would be flatly refused a license.

That makes sense, but I think you'd have to be an accomplished,
well-funded game company to take on a project of this magnitude anyway.

It's a shame that more of the really good literary concepts don't make
it into other media, and that the few that do often fail miserably ("I,
Robot" and "Timeline" come to mind). It's a difficult proposition, I
guess - the authors prefer not to go there unless they can be certain
the end result will be worthy of the book, and the studios/developers
aren't going to take on a project if they're not sure it will have mass
appeal.

_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
whit_news1 ---at--- angledend.com

In article <gcidnRNIIIy-mifcRVn-gw@speakeasy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <max@alcyone.com> wrote:

> Indeed. In the past Niven has been very picky about licensing his works
> for other media, and it's quite likely that someone without a proven
> track record and just a vague idea, even if Niven thought it was very
> good, would be flatly refused a license.

That makes sense, but I think you'd have to be an accomplished,
well-funded game company to take on a project of this magnitude anyway.

It's a shame that more of the really good literary concepts don't make
it into other media, and that the few that do often fail miserably ("I,
Robot" and "Timeline" come to mind). It's a difficult proposition, I
guess - the authors prefer not to go there unless they can be certain
the end result will be worthy of the book, and the studios/developers
aren't going to take on a project if they're not sure it will have mass
appeal.

_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
whit_news1 ---at--- angledend.com

Whit Gurley wrote:

> That's interesting - I wasn't aware of that. I assume none of those have
> turned into actual games, though?

There were two _Ringworld_ (Niven only) graphical RPGs, and there was
some talk of making an IF game of _Inferno_ back at the height of the
Infocom reign (not that it would be Infocom doing it), but that fizzled
out. There was a pen-and-paper RPG for _Ringworld_ released, as well as
one add-on compendium for it. I'm not aware of any other Niven-related
games. And I'm not familiar with any Pournelle games (though there may
be some).

--
Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Can I lay with you / As your wife
-- India Arie

Whit Gurley wrote:

> That's interesting - I wasn't aware of that. I assume none of those have
> turned into actual games, though?

There were two _Ringworld_ (Niven only) graphical RPGs, and there was
some talk of making an IF game of _Inferno_ back at the height of the
Infocom reign (not that it would be Infocom doing it), but that fizzled
out. There was a pen-and-paper RPG for _Ringworld_ released, as well as
one add-on compendium for it. I'm not aware of any other Niven-related
games. And I'm not familiar with any Pournelle games (though there may
be some).

--
Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Can I lay with you / As your wife
-- India Arie

In article <RYadnXWbSdY7jyfcRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <max@alcyone.com> wrote:

> There were two _Ringworld_ (Niven only) graphical RPGs, and there was
> some talk of making an IF game of _Inferno_ back at the height of the
> Infocom reign (not that it would be Infocom doing it), but that fizzled
> out. There was a pen-and-paper RPG for _Ringworld_ released, as well as
> one add-on compendium for it. I'm not aware of any other Niven-related
> games. And I'm not familiar with any Pournelle games (though there may
> be some).

Wow, I had no idea. I see on your site that you own one of these. The
requirements are low enough that I bet it would run in VirtualPC/Mac - I
might give that a try if I can find a copy. Is it worth the attempt?

I think I've read the entire Ringworld series (three books), but I don't
recognize that storyline . Either the game uses a unique story, there's
a book I haven't read, or I'm just forgetting the plot.

_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
whit_news1 ---at--- angledend.com

In article <RYadnXWbSdY7jyfcRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <max@alcyone.com> wrote:

> There were two _Ringworld_ (Niven only) graphical RPGs, and there was
> some talk of making an IF game of _Inferno_ back at the height of the
> Infocom reign (not that it would be Infocom doing it), but that fizzled
> out. There was a pen-and-paper RPG for _Ringworld_ released, as well as
> one add-on compendium for it. I'm not aware of any other Niven-related
> games. And I'm not familiar with any Pournelle games (though there may
> be some).

Wow, I had no idea. I see on your site that you own one of these. The
requirements are low enough that I bet it would run in VirtualPC/Mac - I
might give that a try if I can find a copy. Is it worth the attempt?

I think I've read the entire Ringworld series (three books), but I don't
recognize that storyline . Either the game uses a unique story, there's
a book I haven't read, or I'm just forgetting the plot.

_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
whit_news1 ---at--- angledend.com

Whit Gurley wrote:

> Wow, I had no idea. I see on your site that you own one of these. The
> requirements are low enough that I bet it would run in VirtualPC/Mac - I
> might give that a try if I can find a copy. Is it worth the attempt?

No, it's pretty medicore, even for the computer RPG world.

> I think I've read the entire Ringworld series (three books), ...

There are now four.

> ... but I don't
> recognize that storyline . Either the game uses a unique story, there's
> a book I haven't read, or I'm just forgetting the plot.

Yes, the plots used in the Ringworld computer games were new ones, not
in any books.

--
Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Lawyers, I suppose, were children once.
-- Charles Lamb

Whit Gurley wrote:

> Wow, I had no idea. I see on your site that you own one of these. The
> requirements are low enough that I bet it would run in VirtualPC/Mac - I
> might give that a try if I can find a copy. Is it worth the attempt?

No, it's pretty medicore, even for the computer RPG world.

> I think I've read the entire Ringworld series (three books), ...

There are now four.

> ... but I don't
> recognize that storyline . Either the game uses a unique story, there's
> a book I haven't read, or I'm just forgetting the plot.

Yes, the plots used in the Ringworld computer games were new ones, not
in any books.

--
Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Lawyers, I suppose, were children once.
-- Charles Lamb

"Whit Gurley" <not_an_address@no_domain.com> wrote in message
news:not_an_address-94CA5C.14513310122004@netnews.comcast.net...
>
> Wow, I had no idea. I see on your site that you own one of these. The
> requirements are low enough that I bet it would run in VirtualPC/Mac -
> I
> might give that a try if I can find a copy. Is it worth the attempt?
>
> I think I've read the entire Ringworld series (three books), but I
> don't
> recognize that storyline . Either the game uses a unique story,
> there's
> a book I haven't read, or I'm just forgetting the plot.

Has Larry made the Ringworld public domain? If not, you're treading on
thin ice to use his characters.

Have a great day!

Ami
"Oh, the wonders that I find in the playground in my mind. In a world
that used to be, close your eyes and follow me." -- Clint Holmes,
Playground in My Mind