Re: engineering graduate school question

In article <1182977324.883253.48190@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
bjacoby@iwaynet.net says...
>
> krw wrote:
> > In article <mKadnXBEybTY7R_bnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@nni.com>, gilmer@nni.com
> > says...
> > > > I think you'll find from salary tables that the MS pays for itself, i.e.
> > > you
> > > > make more in higher pay than you lose in the 18 to 24 months it takes to
> > > get
> > > > the degree.
> > >
> > > Maybe so; maybe no.
> >
> > I've found it's usually not the case. If one wants to do a true
> > financial justification, the years of earning potential have to be
> > amortized over a lifetime.
>
> The salary tables show that "usually" which is to say on average it IS
> the case. It's pretty hard to somehow discount all those future years
> at a salary higher than the average person without the degree and say
> that somehow a higher salary for all those years "amortized" over a
> lifetime will be less!

Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.
IME, a shiny MS pays about the same as a BS with two years
experience, or less. IMO, a MS is worthless by itself. As a
stepping-stone to a PhD, fine.

> However, we are talking about PEOPLE and LIFE here! What happens on
> average may not be what happens to you! So "maybe so, maybe no" has
> validity. And more important than that is how one FEELS about various
> things. If you hate classwork and school life, trying to force
> yourself to do more is probably not going to be very successful for
> you.

Of course. Plumbing is a fine career too.

> > For a MS? I started my MS, while working, and quite because it was
> > such a joke. I was learning far more on-the-job than I could ever
> > get out of class.
>
> I don't think getting an MS has ANYTHING to do with job-related
> knowledge! Contrary to some misconceptions among freshman, they do NOT
> teach you how to solder or design stereo amplifiers at college. It
> has to do with credentials and a demonstration of energy and self-
> discipline (which obviously you didn't have) Maybe doing a thesis
> would have helped you learn to spell "quit". Same thing goes for an
> MBA. I doubt you'll find anything there that will really make you a
> business whiz. But in the corporate bureaucracy it's a badge and a key
> to a number of things. It's symbolic in many ways, but sometimes
> symbols are important. (especially in politics).

I didn't say that you learn how to solder better in MS school!
<sheesh>

<snip>

> > If you want to show how smart you are, go into politics. ;-)
>
> You mean if your goals are financial, go into politics. But generally
> speaking, this is not an option for most engineers who have any
> engineering skills at all. Politics and the law are usually best left
> for those who have the social and speaking (lying) skills. Engineers
> usually have the social skills of a paperweight.

No I didn't mean that, or I would have said it. Since we're
obviously ignoring ethics; if you want to make real money become a
lawyer and buy a politician.

> Engineer joke.
> Girl is at party. Meets this good-looking guy. Tries to strike up a
> conversation with him. Nothing! Can't seem to get more than a grunt or
> a single word out of him. She gives up and continues circulating.
> Pretty soon she comes back to where the guy is standing by the punch
> bowl and takes him by the hand. "Follow me!" she says, And leads him
> outside to where another good looking guy is sitting on the edge of
> the fountain. "You two guys should get to know one another!" she
> says, and stomps off. The two of them sit there saying absolutely
> nothing for maybe 20 minutes. Finally one of them says to the other: "
> So, what motherboard are you using?"

;-)

--
Keith

krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in news:MPG.20ecbade13c32e1f98a6c4
@news.individual.net:

> Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
> in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.


If you're paying for the Master's, you're doing something wrong.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On 27 Jun 2007 23:34:41 GMT, Scott Seidman
<namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> wrote:

>krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in news:MPG.20ecbade13c32e1f98a6c4
>@news.individual.net:
>
>> Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
>> in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.
>
>
>If you're paying for the Master's, you're doing something wrong.

Well, crap. I paid for mine.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

In article <Xns995CC7287EFD0scottseidmanmindspri@130.133.1.4> ,
namdiesttocs@mindspring.com says...
> krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in news:MPG.20ecbade13c32e1f98a6c4
> @news.individual.net:
>
> > Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
> > in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.
>
>
> If you're paying for the Master's, you're doing something wrong.

Tain't nothing free.


--
Keith

On June 27th, 2007, Joel Kolstad posted:

""John Gilmer" <gilmer@nni.com> wrote in message
news:mKadnXBEybTY7R_bnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@nni.com...
[..]

> If you want to just show how smart you are, find some journal that you might
> get yourself published in. If you can get yourself published at a young
> age it's possible to quickly get an advanced degree.

Have you read about these guys? -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair

Somewhere in there it mentions that at least one guy kind of defends them by
saying (very much paraphrased here), "Well, you know, they've been little
better than slave labor for a number for years now, we sort of owe them their
PhDs even if it is a bunch of hooey."

---Joel"

I am grateful to Joel Kolstad for this example, which I do
not recall already being aware of. I am already aware that
reviewing of refereed papers allows falsehoods to be
published because reviewers are not attentive enough and as
such, science suffers from miscarriages. An example I am
fond of is an accidental mistake in Fernie, J. D.; Kamper,
Karl W.; Seager, S., "Goodbye to Polaris the Cepheid",
"Astrophysical Journal", v.416, p.820, 1993,
HTTP://ADSAbs.Harvard.edu/abs/1993ApJ...416..820F
which was eventually detected by one or two of the coauthors
and documented in Kamper, Karl W.; Fernie, J. D., "Polaris
Revisited", "The Astronomical Journal", Volume 116, Issue 2,
pp. 936-940, 1998,
HTTP://ADSAbs.Harvard.edu/abs/1998AJ....116..936K
:"[..]
While assembling Table 2, we discovered that in an
earlier paper (FKS) we had made a major error. That paper
had been prepared and written by J. D. F., but all the
results
from our DDO radial velocities had been arrived at by
K. W. K. It was assumed by J. D. F. that the amplitudes
supplied by K. W. K. from these data were full, peak-to-peak
ones, when in fact they were semi-amplitudes. The
latter is the number that emerges naturally from a Fourier
analysis. We were both potentially aware that such an error
could arise, but most unfortunately, we failed to check
with
each other about it. As a result, of course, our diagram of
amplitude versus year in FKS underplotted these amplitudes
by a factor of 2. [..]"

N.B. for those of you who do not want to read the papers,
the overall effect of this was much worse than an inaccuracy
of a factor of two.

As a result of reading
HTTP://En.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair
I noticed a mention of an old discussion entitled "Physics
bitten by reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" of
news:sci.physics.research so I used
HTTP://Groups.Google.co.UK to retrieve posts from it, and
one of Google's resulting advertisements displayed today for
that old discussion was:
"[..]

Sponsored Links


Thesis- We do it for you
US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
www.thesisexpress.com

[..]"

The remainder of this post contains further details in
relation to the advertisement for Thesis Express and
attempts I have made so far to make a complaint to Google in
relation to this matter.

I had noticed other types of unethical advertisements
displayed by Google despite claims on
HTTP://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1...42742/ds1a.htm
such as:
"[..] For example, we don't accept ads for hard liquor, but
we accept ads for wine. It's just a personal preference. We
don't allow gun ads, and the gun lobby got upset about
that. We don't try to put our sense of ethics into the
search results, but we do when it comes to advertising.

[..]"

It is perhaps merely an accident that Google advertizes for
ThesisExpress, Inc., but how could Google Inc. check the
contents of other advertisements without checking the
contents of ThesisExpress's advertisement?

I telephoned four of the supposed telephone numbers listed
on
WWW.Google.com/intl/en/corporate/address.html
, one of them was answered by a fax machine, the other
three were not of any use for conducting an initial
conversation. Perhaps I will receive a response to something
in writing but I will not be contactable for most parties
including Google from the evening (according to local time)
of June 29th to approximately the morning of July 9th.
The current fax number for me is +390502217522 and the
current telephone number is +390502217625, but when I will
be away I will not have access to these.

It is written on
WWW.ThesisExpress.com/main.htm
:"[..]

We accept the following easy mode of payments:

[..logos of Visa; MasterCard; American Express; something
containing the word "DISCOVER"; Diners' Club
International; a logo which I do not recognize and which I
can barely read; and Western Union]"
so it should be possible to find many of Thesis Express's
former customers (unless it suits such companies to
withhold such information in order to e.g. protect customers
who do not earn their salaries). Other methods of payment
are mentioned on WWW.ThesisExpress.com/payment.htm
including XOOM.com and:
"[..]

Swift Code MBTCPHMM
Account Number 098309830462-3
Account Name RODEL O. OLESCO
Address B4 L20 VILLA CONCEPCION TOWNHOUSES, CONGRESSIONAL
AVE. CORNER MINDANAO AVE. PROJECT 6, QUEZON CITY
Name of Bank METROPOLITAN BANK AND TRUST COMPANY (TIMOG
BRANCH)
Bank Address 70 TIMOG AVE., CORNER SCT. TORILLO Quezon City
Philippines
[..]"

Contact details for ThesisExpress claimed on
WWW.ThesisExpress.com/about.htm
are:
"[..]

Suite 203 Yrreverre Square Building
888 Mindanao Avenue,
Quezon City, Philippines

Hotline Number: +63917-8831043
Fax Number: +632-9200703

[..]"

I will reply to this post with a screenshot of the
advertisement.

The following postscripts are merely reproductions of whois
output related to Thesis Express.

Regards,
Colin Paul Gloster

P.S. A result today from
whois ThesisExpress.com
:"[Querying whois.internic.net]
[Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
[Querying whois.godaddy.com]
[whois.godaddy.com]
The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided
"as is"
with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy.
This
information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting
you
in obtaining information about domain name registration
records.
Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly
forbidden without the prior written
permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc. By submitting an inquiry,
you agree to these terms of usage and limitations of
warranty. In particular,
you agree not to use this data to allow, enable, or
otherwise make possible,
dissemination or collection of this data, in part or in its
entirety, for any
purpose, such as the transmission of unsolicited
advertising and
and solicitations of any kind, including spam. You further
agree
not to use this data to enable high volume, automated or
robotic electronic
processes designed to collect or compile this data for any
purpose,
including mining this data for your own personal or
commercial purposes.

Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
in the "registrant" field. In most cases, GoDaddy.com,
Inc.
is not the registrant of domain names listed in this
database.


Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc.
(http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: THESISEXPRESS.COM
Created on: 01-Jul-04
Expires on: 01-Jul-08
Last Updated on: 06-Jul-06

Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration
THESISEXPRESS.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2599

Technical Contact:
Private, Registration
THESISEXPRESS.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2599

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.STARTLOGIC.COM
NS2.STARTLOGIC.COM
"

P.P.S. Today it is written on
WWW.ThesisExpress.com/main.htm
:"[..]

We are with StartLogic, a leading web hosting site which
provides the backbone of our online existence. [..]

[..]"
So a result today from
whois StartLogic.com
:"Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be
registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to
http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.


Domain Name: STARTLOGIC.COM
Registrar: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.register.com
Referral URL: http://www.register.com
Name Server: NS1.STARTLOGIC.COM
Name Server: NS2.STARTLOGIC.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 08-dec-2006
Creation Date: 13-aug-2003
Expiration Date: 13-aug-2009

>>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 28 Jun 2007
09:30:00 UTC <<<

NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the
date the
registrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in
the registry is
currently set to expire. This date does not necessarily
reflect the expiration
date of the domain name registrant's agreement with the
sponsoring
registrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's
Whois database to
view the registrar's reported date of expiration for this
registration.

TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our
Whois
database through the use of electronic processes that are
high-volume and
automated except as reasonably necessary to register domain
names or
modify existing registrations; the Data in VeriSign Global
Registry
Services' ("VeriSign") Whois database is provided by
VeriSign for
information purposes only, and to assist persons in
obtaining information
about or related to a domain name registration record.
VeriSign does not
guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a Whois query, you
agree to abide
by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use
this Data only
for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will
you use this Data
to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the
transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via
e-mail, telephone,
or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated,
electronic processes
that apply to VeriSign (or its computer systems). The
compilation,
repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is
expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of VeriSign.
You agree not to
use electronic processes that are automated and high-volume
to access or
query the Whois database except as reasonably necessary to
register
domain names or modify existing registrations. VeriSign
reserves the right
to restrict your access to the Whois database in its sole
discretion to ensure
operational stability. VeriSign may restrict or terminate
your access to the
Whois database for failure to abide by these terms of use.
VeriSign
reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU
domains and
Registrars.

The data in Register.com's WHOIS database is provided to
you by
Register.com for information purposes only, that is, to
assist you in
obtaining information about or related to a domain name
registration
record. Register.com makes this information available "as
is," and
does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS
query, you
agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes
and that,
under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1)
allow, enable,
or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited,
commercial
advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic
mail, or by
telephone; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic
processes
that apply to Register.com (or its systems). The
compilation,
repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is
expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of
Register.com.
Register.com reserves the right to modify these terms at
any time.
By submitting this query, you agree to abide by these
terms.

Registrant:
Hosting Inspectors
Web Hosting Manager
3540 W. Sahara Ave. #1400
Las Vegas, NV 89102
US
Email: steve@webdevaz.com

Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com

Domain Name: startlogic.com

Created on..............: Wed, Aug 13, 2003
Expires on..............: Thu, Aug 13, 2009
Record last updated on..: Sun, May 21, 2006

Administrative Contact:
Startlogic
Webmaster StartLogic
919 E. Jefferson St, Suite 100
phoenix, AZ 85034
US
Phone: 800-725-8064
Email: hostmaster@startlogic.com

Technical Contact:
Startlogic
Webmaster StartLogic
919 E. Jefferson St, Suite 100
phoenix, AZ 85034
US
Phone: 800-725-8064
Email: hostmaster@startlogic.com

DNS Servers:

ns2.startlogic.com
ns1.startlogic.com


Visit AboutUs.org for more information about startlogic.com

<A HREF="http://www.aboutus.org/startlogic.com">AboutUs:
startlogic.com</A>

Register your domain name at http://www.register.com
"

P.P.P.S. Today it is written on
WWW.ThesisExpress.com/main.htm
:"[..]

We are in tandem with 2CheckOut, our authorized dealer and
the leading online retailer of many legitimate writing
services and other online retailers.

[..]

2Checkout.com is an authorized retailer for ThesisExpress,
Inc.

[..]"
So a result today from
whois 2Checkout.com
:"[Querying whois.internic.net]
[Redirected to whois.tucows.com]
[Querying whois.tucows.com]
[whois.tucows.com]
Registrant:
2Checkout.com Inc.
1785 O'Brien Rd.
Columbus, OH 43228
US

Domain name: 2CHECKOUT.COM

Administrative Contact:
Master, Web webmaster@2checkout.com
1785 O'Brien Rd.
Columbus, OH 43228
US
614-921-2450 Fax: 614-921-2451

Technical Contact:
Master, Web webmaster@2checkout.com
1785 O'Brien Rd.
Columbus, OH 43228
US
614-921-2450 Fax: 614-921-2451



Registration Service Provider:
This company may be contacted for domain
login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support
questions.


Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 01-Nov-2006.
Record expires on 28-Dec-2009.
Record created on 28-Dec-1999.

Domain servers in listed order:
UDNS03.PROLEXIC.NET
UDNS04.PROLEXIC.NET
NS1.TWTELECOM.NET
NS2.TWTELECOM.NET


Domain status: clientDeleteProhibited
clientTransferProhibited
clientUpdateProhibited

The Data in the Tucows Registrar WHOIS database is provided
to you by Tucows
for information purposes only, and may be used to assist
you in obtaining
information about or related to a domain name's
registration record.

Tucows makes this information available "as is," and does
not guarantee its
accuracy.

By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use
this data only for
lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you
use this data to:
a) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission by
e-mail,
telephone, or facsimile of mass, unsolicited, commercial
advertising or
solicitations to entities other than the data recipient's
own existing
customers; or (b) enable high volume, automated, electronic
processes that
send queries or data to the systems of any Registry
Operator or
ICANN-Accredited registrar, except as reasonably necessary
to register
domain names or modify existing registrations.

The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of
this Data is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of
Tucows.

Tucows reserves the right to terminate your access to the
Tucows WHOIS
database in its sole discretion, including without
limitation, for excessive
querying of the WHOIS database or for failure to otherwise
abide by this
policy.

Tucows reserves the right to modify these terms at any
time.

By submitting this query, you agree to abide by these
terms.

NOTE: THE WHOIS DATABASE IS A CONTACT DATABASE ONLY. LACK
OF A DOMAIN
RECORD DOES NOT SIGNIFY DOMAIN AVAILABILITY."

Scott Seidman wrote:

> krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in news:MPG.20ecbade13c32e1f98a6c4
> @news.individual.net:
>
>
>>Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
>>in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.
>
>
>
> If you're paying for the Master's, you're doing something wrong.
>
>
I paid for mine, too, but it didn't cost anywhere near 150K. Maybe 20K,
counting living expenses and everything, but I went to a state school -
UCSB!

Charlie

I doubt anyone is reading this thread anymore, but I can't let the posts
that are marginalizing formal education stand. Maybe it's cognitive
dissonance that I don't want to admit I've wasted time/money in school, but
I think it's more some of these comments smack of the "I don't need no
schoolin'" attitude you hear from 16 year old dilinquents. Growing up in the
American school system there was always a bunch of chuckle heads deriding
and teasing the students who studied. I'll guarantee that our Indian and
Chinese competitors/friends aren't debating the value of graduate school!

During my continuing education over the last several years I've
1. coded an e-commece site based on an open source CMS but heavily
customized with PHP scripting
2. designed a microwave filter using coax sections and plotted the response
on a Smith chart
3. coded a 3-d rendering engine in verilog and simulated with synplicity
4. performed bch ecc syndrome and error correction by hand
5. wrote an algorithm in matlab to find the shortest path through a graph

and a lot more, all of which I've been able to incorporate to varying
degrees in my day job. We use vhdl at work, now I know some verilog. I set
up a web site on the intranet for engineering to communicate. And so on.

I don't know that the piece of paper matters in the big picture but
certainly the knowledge and experience does. If someone can show me a job
where the products are so eclectic as to require all these different fields
please send me an application.

-Clark

In article <4683e37c@news.cadence.com>, edmondson@ieee.org says...
> Scott Seidman wrote:
>
> > krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in news:MPG.20ecbade13c32e1f98a6c4
> > @news.individual.net:
> >
> >
> >>Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add
> >>in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you're paying for the Master's, you're doing something wrong.
> >
> >
> I paid for mine, too, but it didn't cost anywhere near 150K. Maybe 20K,
> counting living expenses and everything, but I went to a state school -
> UCSB!

I didn't say $150K (perhaps $200K) was the cost of the education,
rather the opportunity cost. One could have spent that two years in
industry making real $$.

--
Keith

In article <4683f1f0$0$20613$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
cepope@nc.rr.com says...
> I doubt anyone is reading this thread anymore, but I can't let the posts
> that are marginalizing formal education stand. Maybe it's cognitive
> dissonance that I don't want to admit I've wasted time/money in school, but
> I think it's more some of these comments smack of the "I don't need no
> schoolin'" attitude you hear from 16 year old dilinquents.

Don't get all hyperbolic on us, now.

> Growing up in the
> American school system there was always a bunch of chuckle heads deriding
> and teasing the students who studied. I'll guarantee that our Indian and
> Chinese competitors/friends aren't debating the value of graduate school!

Different economics at work.

> During my continuing education over the last several years I've
> 1. coded an e-commece site based on an open source CMS but heavily
> customized with PHP scripting
> 2. designed a microwave filter using coax sections and plotted the response
> on a Smith chart
> 3. coded a 3-d rendering engine in verilog and simulated with synplicity
> 4. performed bch ecc syndrome and error correction by hand
> 5. wrote an algorithm in matlab to find the shortest path through a graph

This is somehow relevant to the economics of a masters degree?

> and a lot more, all of which I've been able to incorporate to varying
> degrees in my day job. We use vhdl at work, now I know some verilog. I set
> up a web site on the intranet for engineering to communicate. And so on.

This is somehow...

> I don't know that the piece of paper matters in the big picture but
> certainly the knowledge and experience does. If someone can show me a job
> where the products are so eclectic as to require all these different fields
> please send me an application.
>
Show me how much money you made doing all these wunnerful things.

--
Keith

On Thursday 28th June 2007, Colin Paul Gloster sent:

"On June 27th, 2007, Joel Kolstad posted:

""John Gilmer" <gilmer@nni.com> wrote in message
news:mKadnXBEybTY7R_bnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@nni.com...
[..]

> If you want to just show how smart you are, find some journal that you might
> get yourself published in. If you can get yourself published at a young
> age it's possible to quickly get an advanced degree.

Have you read about these guys? -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair

Somewhere in there it mentions that at least one guy kind of defends them by
saying (very much paraphrased here), "Well, you know, they've been little
better than slave labor for a number for years now, we sort of owe them their
PhDs even if it is a bunch of hooey."

---Joel"

[..]

As a result of reading
HTTP://En.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair
I noticed a mention of an old discussion entitled "Physics
bitten by reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" of
news:sci.physics.research so I used
HTTP://Groups.Google.co.UK to retrieve posts from it, and
one of Google's resulting advertisements displayed today for
that old discussion was:
"[..]

Sponsored Links


Thesis- We do it for you
US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
www.thesisexpress.com

[..]"

The remainder of this post contains further details in
relation to the advertisement for Thesis Express and
attempts I have made so far to make a complaint to Google in
relation to this matter.

[..]

It is perhaps merely an accident that Google advertizes for
ThesisExpress, Inc., but how could Google Inc. check the
contents of other advertisements without checking the
contents of ThesisExpress's advertisement?

I telephoned four of the supposed telephone numbers listed
on
WWW.Google.com/intl/en/corporate/address.html
, one of them was answered by a fax machine, the other
three were not of any use for conducting an initial
conversation. Perhaps I will receive a response to something
in writing [..]

[..]"


I received an email from "AdWords Support"
<adwords-support@google.com> timestamped "Thu, 28 Jun 2007
22:05:28 -0000" whose body contains:
"Hello Colin,

Thank you for reporting an ad for 'www.thesisexpress.com'
that possibly
violates one of our policies. Please know that ads in our
program are
reviewed per our advertising guidelines. While we make
every effort to
ensure that ads which may violate our policies do not run
prior to review,
it's possible that some ads run on Google before our
AdWords Specialists
check them.

We assure you that we are working diligently to apply the
same criteria to
all of our ads. We will investigate this matter and, if
necessary, will
take the appropriate action.

Thank you for informing us of your concern, and we
appreciate your
understanding.

Sincerely,

The Google AdWords Team"


I admit that since I received that email I used Google to
look at the same part of the discussion "Physics bitten by
reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" and I also used Google searching
with the term "thesis" and so far Google has not displayed
an advertisement for WWW.ThesisExpress.com to me again.
However, on 16th July 2007 Google displayed advertisements
for:
Ma-Dissertations.com
;
www.dissertationsandtheses.com
;
Mostpopular-Term-Papers.com
;
www.ukessays.com (which even contains a boast "Read the
amazing story about how The Times tested one of our essays
here!" hyperlinked to
http://WWW.TimesOnline.co.UK/tol/lif...icle852486.ece
("Student cheats fuel online essay boom", by Geraldine
Hackett and Gareth Walsh, July 27th, 2003));
http://www.thesisexpert.co.uk/
;
http://www.masterpapers.com/
;
http://www.academicblueprint.com/
;
www.1stessays.com
;
www.thesisexperts.com
;
Dissertation-Advice.co.uk
;
www.ivythesis.com
;
www.DissertationsAndAssignments.com
;
www.Akademisches-Ghost-Writing.de
;
www.DrFranke.de
;
www.EssaysEdit.com
and
www.MonsterPapers.com
so why does Google still accept advertising from entities
whose speciality is facilitating cheaters?

Regards,
Colin Paul Gloster