Re: engineering graduate school question

Someone writes:
> I noticed a mention of an old discussion entitled "Physics
> bitten by reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" of
> news:sci.physics.research so I used
> HTTP://Groups.Google.co.UK to retrieve posts from it, and
> one of Google's resulting advertisements displayed today for
> that old discussion was:
> "[..]
>
> Sponsored Links
>
> Thesis- We do it for you
> US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
> 24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
> www.thesisexpress.com
>
> [..]"
>
> The remainder of this post contains further details in
> relation to the advertisement for Thesis Express and
> attempts I have made so far to make a complaint to Google in
> relation to this matter.

Educational fraud ought to be flatly illegal. It's a gap in our criminal
law system.

On Jul 16, 11:15 am, "mc" <l...@www.ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote:
> Someone writes:
> > I noticed a mention of an old discussion entitled "Physics
> > bitten by reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" of
> > news:sci.physics.research so I used
> > HTTP://Groups.Google.co.UK to retrieve posts from it, and
> > one of Google's resulting advertisements displayed today for
> > that old discussion was:
> > "[..]
>
> > Sponsored Links
>
> > Thesis- We do it for you
> > US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
> > 24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
> > www.thesisexpress.com
>
> > [..]"
>
> > The remainder of this post contains further details in
> > relation to the advertisement for Thesis Express and
> > attempts I have made so far to make a complaint to Google in
> > relation to this matter.
>
> Educational fraud ought to be flatly illegal. It's a gap in our criminal
> law system.

i think that whatever law that applies to misrepresenting credentials
(whether it's educational degree or prior work experience) should
apply. if they write laws that toss people in jail for
misrepresenting their previous jobs (and heck, maybe they do that if
you are applying for the CIA or similar) then, in the same context, we
can toss them in jail for misrepresenting their degree or the school
they got it from. of course the present "gap in our criminal law
system" about this does not prevent a prospective employer from doing
his/her due diligence in verifying specific claims of educational
degree or of prior work experience, nor of firing someone due to cause
for misrepresenting either when they were hired.

BTW, about the Bogdanov Affair, (long before getting kicked outa
Wikipedia) i was involved in the early bruising Wikipedia battles
about that article because the Bogdanov brothers themselves were
trying to edit out the embarassing (but factual) information out of
that article. it really exposed them (but there were some other
exposes, mostly written in French, in some of the magazines) for what
they are. i guess it has to take a really egregious case like the
Bogdanovs (or the Alan Sokal affair) to get some folks to wake up to
the racket some in the higher education system have going. it's sorta
criminal, but i don't ever expect people to go to jail for it. it's
not like they're misrepresenting themselves as an MD and start cutting
people. but frauds should be exposed, and if such frauds took your
money, i think there is already enough law to deal with that.

r b-j

robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> writes:
> [...]
> BTW, about the Bogdanov Affair, (long before getting kicked outa
> Wikipedia) i was involved [...]

Huh?!? You got kicked out of Wikipedia? I didn't think that could happen.
Please tell us more.
--
% Randy Yates % "She tells me that she likes me very much,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % but when I try to touch, she makes it
%%% 919-577-9882 % all too clear."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

On Jul 16, 8:18 pm, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:
> robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> writes:
> > [...]
> > BTW, about the Bogdanov Affair, (long before getting kicked outa
> > Wikipedia) i was involved [...]
>
> Huh?!? You got kicked out of Wikipedia? I didn't think that could happen.

oh, they can keep registered editors from editing. and block IP
addresses, too (but alas, in the final state of things, they didn't
block the Kurzweil IP, so i and other Kurzweil people can edit
anonymously - but i am *not* editing Wikipedia until there is some
reform).

> Please tell us more.

oh, i s'pose you can see my user page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rbj

and user talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rbj

and the description from the admin who did it (he claims he had
"consensus" for a "community ban" which is Wikipedia's version of mob
rule):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...banned_users#R

and my last appeal for justice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ck_of_User:Rbj


Randy, you'll have to click the other links to drill down to exactly
who said what.

L8r,

r b-j

robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> writes:

> On Jul 16, 8:18 pm, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:
>> robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> writes:
>> > [...]
>> > BTW, about the Bogdanov Affair, (long before getting kicked outa
>> > Wikipedia) i was involved [...]
>>
>> Huh?!? You got kicked out of Wikipedia? I didn't think that could happen.
>
> oh, they can keep registered editors from editing. and block IP
> addresses, too (but alas, in the final state of things, they didn't
> block the Kurzweil IP, so i and other Kurzweil people can edit
> anonymously - but i am *not* editing Wikipedia until there is some
> reform).
>
>> Please tell us more.
>
> oh, i s'pose you can see my user page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rbj
>
> and user talk page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rbj
>
> and the description from the admin who did it (he claims he had
> "consensus" for a "community ban" which is Wikipedia's version of mob
> rule):
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...banned_users#R
>
> and my last appeal for justice:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ck_of_User:Rbj
>
>
> Randy, you'll have to click the other links to drill down to exactly
> who said what.

I followed a couple of the links, but I think I've seen enough. Wikipedia
is broken.
--
% Randy Yates % "Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % you still wander the fields of your
%%% 919-577-9882 % sorrow."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

>> > Thesis- We do it for you
>> > US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
>> > 24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
>> > www.thesisexpress.com

>> Educational fraud ought to be flatly illegal. It's a gap in our criminal
>> law system.

> i think that whatever law that applies to misrepresenting credentials
> (whether it's educational degree or prior work experience) should
> apply. if they write laws that toss people in jail for
> misrepresenting their previous jobs (and heck, maybe they do that if
> you are applying for the CIA or similar) then, in the same context, we
> can toss them in jail for misrepresenting their degree or the school
> they got it from. of course the present "gap in our criminal law
> system" about this does not prevent a prospective employer from doing
> his/her due diligence in verifying specific claims of educational
> degree or of prior work experience, nor of firing someone due to cause
> for misrepresenting either when they were hired.

The fraud I had in mind is where you really have the degree, but you got it
by defrauding the university (having someone else write your papers, for
example). And it should be illegal to offer this service.

robert bristow-johnson wrote:

<snip>

>>Huh?!? You got kicked out of Wikipedia? I didn't think that could happen.
>
>
> oh, they can keep registered editors from editing. and block IP
> addresses, too (but alas, in the final state of things, they didn't
> block the Kurzweil IP, so i and other Kurzweil people can edit
> anonymously - but i am *not* editing Wikipedia until there is some
> reform).
>
>
>>Please tell us more.
>
>
> oh, i s'pose you can see my user page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rbj
>

<snip>

Thanks for these references; it sure leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I always have disliked wikis in general and feel that they are a
very flawed medium. Reading the disingenuous remarks of some of
those 'admins' reminded me of a Twilight Zone episode or some
frightening social-hell science fiction.

Regards,

Michael

Randy Yates wrote:
> robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> writes:
>
>> On Jul 16, 8:18 pm, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:
>>> robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>> BTW, about the Bogdanov Affair, (long before getting kicked outa
>>>> Wikipedia) i was involved [...]
>>> Huh?!? You got kicked out of Wikipedia? I didn't think that could happen.
>> oh, they can keep registered editors from editing. and block IP
>> addresses, too (but alas, in the final state of things, they didn't
>> block the Kurzweil IP, so i and other Kurzweil people can edit
>> anonymously - but i am *not* editing Wikipedia until there is some
>> reform).
>>
>>> Please tell us more.
>> oh, i s'pose you can see my user page:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rbj
>>
>> and user talk page:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rbj
>>
>> and the description from the admin who did it (he claims he had
>> "consensus" for a "community ban" which is Wikipedia's version of mob
>> rule):
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...banned_users#R
>>
>> and my last appeal for justice:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ck_of_User:Rbj
>>
>>
>> Randy, you'll have to click the other links to drill down to exactly
>> who said what.
>
> I followed a couple of the links, but I think I've seen enough. Wikipedia
> is broken.

You think that's bad? There are folk with commercial interests going
through all the references to anything vaguely competitor-like, and
removing them. Nobody stops this.

Wikipedia is a war zone.

Steve

Colin Paul Gloster wrote:

> On Thursday 28th June 2007, Colin Paul Gloster sent:
>
> "On June 27th, 2007, Joel Kolstad posted:
>
> ""John Gilmer" <gilmer@nni.com> wrote in message
> news:mKadnXBEybTY7R_bnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@nni.com...
> [..]
>
> > If you want to just show how smart you are, find some journal
> > that you might
> > get yourself published in. If you can get yourself published
> > at a young age it's possible to quickly get an advanced
> > degree.
>
> Have you read about these guys? -->
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair
>
> Somewhere in there it mentions that at least one guy kind of
> defends them by saying (very much paraphrased here), "Well, you
> know, they've been little better than slave labor for a number
> for years now, we sort of owe them their PhDs even if it is a
> bunch of hooey."
>
> ---Joel"
>
> [..]
>
> As a result of reading
> HTTP://En.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair
> I noticed a mention of an old discussion entitled "Physics
> bitten by reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" of
> news:sci.physics.research so I used
> HTTP://Groups.Google.co.UK to retrieve posts from it, and
> one of Google's resulting advertisements displayed today for
> that old discussion was:
> "[..]
>
> Sponsored Links
>
>
> Thesis- We do it for you
> US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
> 24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
> www.thesisexpress.com
>
> [..]"
>
> The remainder of this post contains further details in
> relation to the advertisement for Thesis Express and
> attempts I have made so far to make a complaint to Google in
> relation to this matter.
>
> [..]
>
> It is perhaps merely an accident that Google advertizes for
> ThesisExpress, Inc., but how could Google Inc. check the
> contents of other advertisements without checking the
> contents of ThesisExpress's advertisement?
>
> I telephoned four of the supposed telephone numbers listed
> on
> WWW.Google.com/intl/en/corporate/address.html
> , one of them was answered by a fax machine, the other
> three were not of any use for conducting an initial
> conversation. Perhaps I will receive a response to something
> in writing [..]
>
> [..]"
>
>
> I received an email from "AdWords Support"
> <adwords-support@google.com> timestamped "Thu, 28 Jun 2007
> 22:05:28 -0000" whose body contains:
> "Hello Colin,
>
> Thank you for reporting an ad for 'www.thesisexpress.com'
> that possibly
> violates one of our policies. Please know that ads in our
> program are
> reviewed per our advertising guidelines. While we make
> every effort to
> ensure that ads which may violate our policies do not run
> prior to review,
> it's possible that some ads run on Google before our
> AdWords Specialists
> check them.
>
> We assure you that we are working diligently to apply the
> same criteria to
> all of our ads. We will investigate this matter and, if
> necessary, will
> take the appropriate action.
>
> Thank you for informing us of your concern, and we
> appreciate your
> understanding.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The Google AdWords Team"
>
>
> I admit that since I received that email I used Google to
> look at the same part of the discussion "Physics bitten by
> reverse Alan Sokal hoax?" and I also used Google searching
> with the term "thesis" and so far Google has not displayed
> an advertisement for WWW.ThesisExpress.com to me again.
> However, on 16th July 2007 Google displayed advertisements
> for:
> Ma-Dissertations.com
> ;
> www.dissertationsandtheses.com
> ;
> Mostpopular-Term-Papers.com
> ;
> www.ukessays.com (which even contains a boast "Read the
> amazing story about how The Times tested one of our essays
> here!" hyperlinked to
>
http://WWW.TimesOnline.co.UK/tol/lif...icle852486.ece
> ("Student cheats fuel online essay boom", by Geraldine
> Hackett and Gareth Walsh, July 27th, 2003));
> http://www.thesisexpert.co.uk/
> ;
> http://www.masterpapers.com/
> ;
> http://www.academicblueprint.com/
> ;
> www.1stessays.com
> ;
> www.thesisexperts.com
> ;
> Dissertation-Advice.co.uk
> ;
> www.ivythesis.com
> ;
> www.DissertationsAndAssignments.com
> ;
> www.Akademisches-Ghost-Writing.de
> ;
> www.DrFranke.de
> ;
> www.EssaysEdit.com
> and
> www.MonsterPapers.com
> so why does Google still accept advertising from entities
> whose speciality is facilitating cheaters?
>
> Regards,
> Colin Paul Gloster

Because it is lots of business / money?
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.Â*Â*
--Schiller

mc wrote:

>>> > Thesis- We do it for you
>>> > US $10/page- APA, MLA & Harvard
>>> > 24/7 Support Secured & Confidential
>>> > www.thesisexpress.com
>
>>> Educational fraud ought to be flatly illegal. It's a gap in our
>>> criminal law system.
>
>> i think that whatever law that applies to misrepresenting credentials
>> (whether it's educational degree or prior work experience) should
>> apply. if they write laws that toss people in jail for
>> misrepresenting their previous jobs (and heck, maybe they do that if
>> you are applying for the CIA or similar) then, in the same context, we
>> can toss them in jail for misrepresenting their degree or the school
>> they got it from. of course the present "gap in our criminal law
>> system" about this does not prevent a prospective employer from doing
>> his/her due diligence in verifying specific claims of educational
>> degree or of prior work experience, nor of firing someone due to cause
>> for misrepresenting either when they were hired.
>
> The fraud I had in mind is where you really have the degree, but you got
> it by defrauding the university (having someone else write your papers,
> for
> example). And it should be illegal to offer this service.

While i agree with your position, it has been the choice of the ruling class
for over 2600 years that it be so. Small wonder, it helps keep them in
power.
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.Â*Â*
--Schiller