"Selling" Perl (i.e. getting the boss to let me install it)

Hello,

I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine specifically to
run a particular script. The "problem" is that the admins in charge of
the PC are very cautious about what is installed and the security
implications of everything (as they should be).

I thought I recalled seeing a perlfaq specifically regarding this issue,
but several `perldoc -q' searches and a perusal of the perlfaqs posted
here were fruitless. (Besides the sort of general "How do I convince
others to use Perl?")

Can anyone provide a link or perhaps a little narrative about why Perl
is safe and secure to install (I'm talking about the Perl interpreter,
specifically the ActivePerl build here, not any scripts that may be
run).

Also, the script that I'd like to run if I do get Perl installed uses
WWW::Mechanize. Are there any links, resources, opinions, or first-hand
experiences as to the security implications of this particular module?

Thanks,

PB

--
Electricians made popcorn in the power supply

P B <newsposter625@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine specifically to
> run a particular script. The "problem" is that the admins in charge of
> the PC are very cautious about what is installed and the security
> implications of everything (as they should be).

You have limited access rights, and Perl will run with your rights. Hence
it doesn't provide you with any magic. If your admins don't get it, they
shouldn't admin computers in the first place.

That being said, you probably can just install Perl in your own directory,
one way or another.

--
John http://johnbokma.com/ - Hacking & Hiking in Mexico

Perl help in exchange for a gift:
http://johnbokma.com/perl/help-in-ex...or-a-gift.html

John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote in
news:Xns9B0E6551F4B22castleamber@130.133.1.4:

> P B <newsposter625@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine specifically
>> to run a particular script. The "problem" is that the admins in
>> charge of the PC are very cautious about what is installed and the
>> security implications of everything (as they should be).
>
> You have limited access rights, and Perl will run with your rights.
> Hence it doesn't provide you with any magic. If your admins don't get
> it, they shouldn't admin computers in the first place.
>
> That being said, you probably can just install Perl in your own
> directory, one way or another.

Ditto.

You can also pack the script into a self-sufficient exe using pp:

http://search.cpan.org/~smueller/PAR...l_Packager:_pp

The executable would not need any elevated privileges other
than being able to read/write your account's %TEMP%.

Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)

comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/

P B wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine specifically to
> run a particular script. The "problem" is that the admins in charge of
> the PC are very cautious about what is installed and the security
> implications of everything (as they should be).
>
> I thought I recalled seeing a perlfaq specifically regarding this issue,
> but several `perldoc -q' searches and a perusal of the perlfaqs posted
> here were fruitless. (Besides the sort of general "How do I convince
> others to use Perl?")
>
> Can anyone provide a link or perhaps a little narrative about why Perl
> is safe and secure to install (I'm talking about the Perl interpreter,
> specifically the ActivePerl build here, not any scripts that may be
> run).
>
> Also, the script that I'd like to run if I do get Perl installed uses
> WWW::Mechanize. Are there any links, resources, opinions, or first-hand
> experiences as to the security implications of this particular module?
>
> Thanks,
>
> PB
>

You "sell" the installation of Perl by tying it to a business need,
show it's value and how Perl allows you to meet the business need.

--

Len

Look for a new job. Seriously, if you work in an environment in which
installing Activestate Perl requires permission you probably aren't in a
place that will let you be successful.

--
Dave E.

"Dave Everson" <d a v i d . e v e r s o n @ h p . c o m> wrote:

> Look for a new job. Seriously, if you work in an environment in which
> installing Activestate Perl requires permission you probably aren't in a
> place that will let you be successful.

IMNSHO that's quite an over the top statement.

--
John http://johnbokma.com/ - Hacking & Hiking in Mexico

Perl help in exchange for a gift:
http://johnbokma.com/perl/help-in-ex...or-a-gift.html

On Sep 3, 10:39*am, P B <newsposter...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

All languages are simply tools, nothing more. As such, you need to
relate a job and a tool. If all you do is pound in nails, you don't
need a wrench. If you fasten bolts, you need a wrench, not a hammer.

Your manager will probably tell you that you should use the 'best'
tool for the job. 'Best' can mean many things, e.g., the tools that
you have are better than the tools that you don't have, the tools that
are cheaper are better than the more expensive tools, the tools backed
by a big company (i.e., Microsoft) are better than those not backed by
a big company (i.e., Perl), and so on. I once had the experience of a
manager giving thumbs down on a Linux server because he didn't know
it, and I couldn't argue with the logic that a tool that you know how
to use is 'better' than a tool you don't know how to use.

Perl is very good for some jobs, passable for others, and horrible for
other jobs. If Perl is the 'best' tool for a particular job, you need
to make the case. If you can't make the case, use whatever other tool
you have.

As far as I know, an ordinary user can install Perl and run Perl
scripts without the permission or intervention of the administrative
user. If you are dealing with some kind of firewall, that raises
different issues. If push comes to shove, you can always grab the
sources and compile it. I assume that your sysadmin doesn't have a
problem with C?

CC

On 2008-09-03, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
> P B <newsposter625@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine...
>> [snip]

> You have limited access rights, and Perl will run with your rights.
> Hence it doesn't provide you with any magic.

That's just the answer I was looking for. Thanks, that will do it.

> If your admins don't get it, they shouldn't admin computers in the
> first place.

They aren't technically admins (only in the sense that they're in charge
of the computers and network, in fact that is one of their minor
duties.) The organization in question is not an IT shop at all, but
rather a (very) small community-based non-profit organization. They're
just erring on the side of caution. (They even require a password to
access the web via Internet Explorer on this special use workstation I
want to install Perl on.) I realize that their caution is probably born
primarily of ignorance, but at least they know enough to be cautious.
In any case, armed with your concise response, I can enlighten them and
they will assuredly indulge my desire to install Perl.

--
REST:
P: Linus Torvalds
S: Buried alive in email
-- from /usr/src/linux/MAINTAINERS

On 2008-09-03, l v <veatchla@yahoo.com> wrote:
> P B wrote:
>> I'd like to install ActivePerl on a Windows XP machine ...
>> [snip]

> You "sell" the installation of Perl by tying it to a business need,
> show it's value and how Perl allows you to meet the business need.

Yeah, I got that much from `perlfaq -q convince' but I have already
successfully shown these people how Perl effectively meets a business
need. They agree, but they are still reserved when it comes to
installing things they're not familiar with. It's my job (in this case)
to make them familiar with the security implications of a Perl
installation.

Regards,

PB

--
You are not dead yet. But watch for further reports.

On 2008-09-03, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
> "Dave Everson" <d a v i d . e v e r s o n @ h p . c o m> wrote:

>> Look for a new job. Seriously, if you work in an environment in
>> which installing Activestate Perl requires permission you probably
>> aren't in a place that will let you be successful.

> IMNSHO that's quite an over the top statement.

Agreed. See my followup upthread. While I (sort of) agree with Dave in
principle, we're talking about people who are simply not familiar with
Perl--or, for that matter, any sort of language or runtime--at all. I've
already said it elsewhere: they're just erring on the side of caution.
As soon as I'm able to allay their doubts and fears, they'll be fine
with it.

--
It's later than you think.