Re: Specifying precision

#21 07-28-2008, 11:14 AM

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
> glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> said:
>
> >I think we have had this discussion before, though I may
> >not be convinced. By floating point hardware, I would mean
> >hardware that can do floating point addition, subtraction,
> >multiplication, or division of floating point numbers.
>
> Il va sans dire.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Latin?

> It existed in the 1950's. It existed on a non-IBM machine
> in the 1960's, at least one of which had both floating binary
> and floating decimal.

#22 07-28-2008, 02:58 PM

Everett M. Greene wrote:
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
>> glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> said:
>>
>>> I think we have had this discussion before, though I may
>>> not be convinced. By floating point hardware, I would mean
>>> hardware that can do floating point addition, subtraction,
>>> multiplication, or division of floating point numbers.
>> Il va sans dire.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Latin?

It goes with out saying that it isn't Latin, but French.

>
>> It existed in the 1950's. It existed on a non-IBM machine
>> in the 1960's, at least one of which had both floating binary
>> and floating decimal.

Curious. Do you remember the name of the machine, or the manufacturer?

LR

#23 07-29-2008, 11:57 AM

LR <lruss@superlink.net> writes:
> Everett M. Greene wrote:
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
> >> glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> said:
> >>
> >>> I think we have had this discussion before, though I may
> >>> not be convinced. By floating point hardware, I would mean
> >>> hardware that can do floating point addition, subtraction,
> >>> multiplication, or division of floating point numbers.
> >> Il va sans dire.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Latin?
>
> It goes with out saying that it isn't Latin, but French.

My knowledge of French is about the same as my knowledge of
Latin. Anyone care to translate it?

#24 07-29-2008, 01:52 PM

Everett M. Greene wrote:
> LR <lruss@superlink.net> writes:
>> Everett M. Greene wrote:
>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
>>>> glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> said:

>>>> Il va sans dire.
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> Latin?
>> It goes with out saying that it isn't Latin, but French.

>
> My knowledge of French is about the same as my knowledge of
> Latin. Anyone care to translate it?

It goes without saying.

LR

#25 07-30-2008, 08:56 AM

In <20080728.7A3B0E8.6C5F@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, on 07/28/2008
at 07:14 AM, mojaveg@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com (Everett M. Greene)
said:

> Latin?

French. The phrase means that it goes without saying.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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#26 07-30-2008, 08:58 AM

In <488e1685$0$19702$cc2e38e6@news.uslec.net>, on 07/28/2008
at 02:58 PM, LR <lruss@superlink.net> said:

>Curious. Do you remember the name of the machine, or the manufacturer?

Yes. RCA 601. Possibly the Burroughs B6500 as well, but I'd have to look
that one up.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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#27 07-30-2008, 12:43 PM

LR <lruss@superlink.net> writes:
> Everett M. Greene wrote:
> > LR <lruss@superlink.net> writes:
> >> Everett M. Greene wrote:
> >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
> >>>> glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> said:
>
> >>>> Il va sans dire.
> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> Latin?
> >> It goes with out saying that it isn't Latin, but French.

> >
> > My knowledge of French is about the same as my knowledge of
> > Latin. Anyone care to translate it?
>
> It goes without saying.

What goes without saying? :-)

Who's on first?

#28 07-30-2008, 01:52 PM

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> In <488e1685$0$19702$cc2e38e6@news.uslec.net>, on 07/28/2008
> at 02:58 PM, LR <lruss@superlink.net> said:
>
>> Curious. Do you remember the name of the machine, or the manufacturer?
>
> Yes. RCA 601

You sure? BitSavers doesn't, unfortunately, have the relevant manual,
but the Assembler manual has a list of opcodes, with:

Add Word Decimal
Add Word Binary
Add Halfword Decimal
Add Halfword Binary
Add Symbol/Field Controlled
Add Character Address
Add Halfword Address
Add to Address Register

> the Burroughs B6500 as well, but I'd have to look
> that one up.

--
John W. Kennedy
"Though a Rothschild you may be
In your own capacity,
As a Company you've come to utter sorrow--
But the Liquidators say,
'Never mind--you needn't pay,'
So you start another company to-morrow!"
-- Sir William S. Gilbert. "Utopia Limited"

#29 07-31-2008, 10:51 AM

"John W Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:488ab10b$0$7355$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> robin wrote:
> > "glen herrmannsfeldt" <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> > news:A_ydnYBptMkY-R3VnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> robin wrote:
> >>> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote in message ...
> >>>> robin wrote:
> >>>> (snip)
> >>>>> For non IEEE and double words, IBM hardware allowed
> >>>>> for hex float with 53 maximum guaranteed binary bits, hence
> >>>>> it could not "round up" to 54 because the hardware
> >>>>> could not support it.
> >>>> Extended precision hardware has existed since the
> >>>> 360/85,
> >>> But not on the S/360 series generally.
> >> No, but they supplied an emulator.
> >
> > Not on any of the other 360 systems of which I am aware.
> > It was not introduced until the /370, and then only
> > as A, S, and M.
>
> No, 128-bit hex floating point was introduced on the 85, was also found
> on the 195, and was provided by software emulation on all other models
> running OS/360 -- emulation was necessary for the DXR instruction,
> anyway, which didn't appear in hardware until much later, although it
> was architected and generated as compiler output for compilers that
> supported it.
>
> >> The original comment applies to the Optimizing compiler
> >> and later ones. (F) didn't support extended precision.
>
> > Of course not, because it wasn't available on the hardware.
>
> It was not implemented as hardware in the 360, except for the 85 and
> 195, but it was available via software emulation. However, it was not
> supported by any free OS/360 compiler; you had to get the Optimizer or
> the Checker for PL/I, and H Extended, or, later, VS FORTRAN, for FORTRAN.
>
> > If it does not exist, it doesn't exist.
>
> That amounts to a claim that every S/360 Principles of Operation manual
> has been burnt.
>
> > IBM's PL/I compiler for OS/2 implemented floating-point
> > in software.
>
> If it did, then it was years behind the state of the art; normal OS/2
> compilers used 80387 code that could be resolved by an emulator if the
> chip were not present.

You are contradicting yourself.
Most of the early PCs did not have the float hardware,
and F.P. computation was performed in software,
whether under OS/2 or MS DOS or DR DOS.

#30 07-31-2008, 02:59 PM

In <4890aabd$0$7332$607ed4bc@cv.net>, on 07/30/2008
at 01:52 PM, John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net> said:

>You sure?

I may be thinking of its big brother the RCA 604; my 601 manual doesn't
list floating point at all.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
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