ANNOUNCE: Lisp Without Parentheses Project (Lispin) Site Open - Programming Languages

FYI, There is a tree editor for Scheme: GTEdit (Gesture Based Tree
Editor)
I think it aims at education, though.

Download, screenshot, etc:
[url]http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~hara2001/dist/[/url] (Japanese)
Paper:
[url]http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~hara2001/research/gtedit/gtedit.pdf[/url]
(English)

--shiro


André Thieme wrote:
[color=blue]
> Bill Birch schrieb:[color=green]
> > The Lispin project web site has been launched.
> >
> > The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
> > indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
> > other poposals. e.g.
> >
> > define (fac x)
> > if (= x 0) 1
> > * x
> > fac (- x 1
> >
> > The site at [url]http://www.lispin.org/[/url] provides a wiki for collaboration
> > and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
> > in an indented Lisp.[/color]
>
>
> The funny thing about this is that Lisp has no parentheses. With a tree
> editor you could code without using a single paren. They are the visual
> tool for the programmer to create a tree.
> On the other hand: your language has parens.
> So you could announce your project as "LWP - Lisp with Parentheses".
>
>
> André
> --[/color]

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:00:12 -0800, Shiro Kawai wrote:
[color=blue]
> FYI, There is a tree editor for Scheme: GTEdit (Gesture Based Tree
> Editor)
> I think it aims at education, though.
>
> Download, screenshot, etc:
> [url]http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~hara2001/dist/[/url] (Japanese)
> Paper:
> [url]http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~hara2001/research/gtedit/gtedit.pdf[/url]
> (English)
>
> --shiro[/color]

Nice idea, I' not convinced I'd use such a tool (instead of Emacs/SLIME
with paredit which attempts to be a structured editor) but it might be a
good teaching device.

BTW, i had to tweak your startup script (running on GNU/Linux Ubuntu 5.10):

yours> java -classpath ./lib/ui.jar;./lib/util.jar ui.gtedit.GTMain --configdir ./.gtedit $@

mine> java -classpath ./lib/ui.jar:./lib/util.jar ui.gtedit.GTMain --configdir ./.gtedit $@

(note the classpath separator)


Cheers, Ralf Mattes
[color=blue]
>
> André Thieme wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Bill Birch schrieb:[color=darkred]
>> > The Lispin project web site has been launched.
>> >
>> > The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
>> > indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and other poposals. e.g.
>> >
>> > define (fac x)
>> > if (= x 0) 1
>> > * x
>> > fac (- x 1
>> >
>> > The site at [url]http://www.lispin.org/[/url] provides a wiki for collaboration
>> > and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
>> > in an indented Lisp.[/color]
>>
>>
>> The funny thing about this is that Lisp has no parentheses. With a tree
>> editor you could code without using a single paren. They are the visual
>> tool for the programmer to create a tree. On the other hand: your
>> language has parens. So you could announce your project as "LWP - Lisp
>> with Parentheses".
>>
>>
>> André
>> --[/color][/color]

In article <1kFah.31283$yl4.23756@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
Anton van Straaten <anton@appsolutions.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> There's a "we don't take kindly to your type around here" joke in here
> somewhere.
>
> It might involve the bartender pointing to a sign reading "This is an
> indentation-sensitive establishment".[/color]

I guess that would be [email]haskell-cafe@haskell.org[/email] ?

"""Bill Birch ÐÉÓÁÌ(Á):
"""[color=blue]
> The Lispin project web site has been launched.
>
> The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
> indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
> other poposals. e.g.
>
> define (fac x)
> if (= x 0) 1
> * x
> fac (- x 1
>[/color]

As I understand, newline stands for a opening paren

(define (fac x)
(if (= x 0) 1
(* x
(fac (- x 1
) )) ) )

The idea to have this sort of transformation in an editor is a good
one.

As to usefulness of this project, well, evolution of programming
languages is all about notation.

But.... I work with C code edited in different editors on different
platforms. One typical thing is that some editors define a Tab to mean
n*4 while others define it to mean x*8. At the same time, some editors
compress spaces to tabs while other compress tabs to spaces, and each
one uses its own understanding of tabs. The result is that misindented
code fragments happen very often.

MORAL: do not fill indents with whitespace.

For example,

define (fac x)
_ if (= x 0) 1
_ _ * x
_ _ _ fac (- x 1


[color=blue]
> The site at [url]http://www.lispin.org/[/url] provides a wiki for collaboration
> and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
> in an indented Lisp.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Birch[/color]

[email]m_l_g3@yahoo.com[/email] schrieb:[color=blue]
> MORAL: do not fill indents with whitespace.
>
> For example,
>
> define (fac x)
> _ if (= x 0) 1
> _ _ * x
> _ _ _ fac (- x 1[/color]

That seems worse than the disease to me.

BETTER MORAL: report tabs with a compiler error.
People will quickly learn to save their files with tabs expanded

Regards,
Jo

(message (Hello 'Joachim)
(you :wrote n '(Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:05:12 +0100))
(

JD> That seems worse than the disease to me.

JD> BETTER MORAL: report tabs with a compiler error.
JD> People will quickly learn to save their files with tabs expanded

people will quickly abandon this crap!

)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")

Alex Mizrahi schrieb:[color=blue]
> JD> BETTER MORAL: report tabs with a compiler error.
> JD> People will quickly learn to save their files with tabs expanded
>
> people will quickly abandon this crap![/color]

Go tell the Haskellers.
Or the Pythonistas.

And try to give some informed resoning why you consider it "crap",
otherwise you'll just be laughed off.

Regards,
Jo

(message (Hello 'Joachim)
(you :wrote n '(Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:58:08 +0100))
(

JD>>> BETTER MORAL: report tabs with a compiler error.
JD>>> People will quickly learn to save their files with tabs expanded
??>> people will quickly abandon this crap!

JD> Go tell the Haskellers.
JD> Or the Pythonistas.

JD> And try to give some informed resoning why you consider it "crap",
JD> otherwise you'll just be laughed off.

1. python does not prohibit tabs. for myself, i've prohibited using spaces
for indentation in python, and i think there will be less problems with it
if language spec allowed only tabs being used for indentation. that way it
can be made more straightforward -- one tab, one indent, not some clumsy
rules (some people can use two spaces for indentation, some people can use 8
spaces, others can use 3).
also, there would be less problems with different habbits -- some people
prefer 8-space tabs, other prefer 2-space tabs, and if code contains only
tabs, they will get what they want, since conversion will be done only for
visualization.

2. too complex syntax is one of reasons i'm not programming in Haskell, but
programming in Lisp -- lanuage with simpliest syntax possible.
maybe i'd prefer to have static typization and other Haskell goodies, if not
that odd syntax.

i admit that some people find that ok, but i'm not of their number.

)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")

"Joe Marshall" <eval.apply@gmail.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Ken Tilton wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > A parenthesis, a bracket, and a brace walk into a bar...[/color]
>
> Would that be a vertical bar or a foo bar?[/color]

fubar ...


/Jon

--
'j' - a n t h o n y at romeo/charley/november com