Is Rexx a good beginner language for...

I have never programmed.
I have don't need to program for my job.
I enjoy computers as a hobby and as a tool for work.
I prefer using Linux.

I hope it is okay to ask here, because I have not found any online Rexx
forums that I can use.

I would like to learn some programming skills for the following:
- write simple scripts to automate some tasks on Linux.
- write simple CLI programs to keep track of information and do other fun
tasks for me, hobby stuff.
- might like to get into some web development, but this would be on a
hobby scale to create web apps for personal use, like a small database app
with forms and search capabilities.

I have tried to learn Python, but it seemed like you needed to learn all
sorts of different libraries ("import ...") before you could do anything
with it, even for simple command line programs.
I have tried learning basic, which I kind of liked, but did not find a
version on Linux that was similar to Qbasic which I was learning.

I have considered trying Python again, PHP, BASH, and Javascript (this
last one mostly because of neat programs like TiddlyWiki and S5
Presentations, but I understand that programing the DOM is not easy at all
and might be the hardest type of programing.

Then I found out about Rexx which allows you to use Linux CLI commands in
the program code, which sounded interesting. The syntax also looked as
easy as Basic.

I would appreciate this group's opinion. I'm concerned about a lack of
help when I get stuck, and I just don't hear about Rexx very much at all.
Is it still a good language for a beginner or should everyone just use
Python?

mowestusa

mowestusa wrote:

> I have never programmed.
> I have don't need to program for my job.
> I enjoy computers as a hobby and as a tool for work.
> I prefer using Linux.
>
> I hope it is okay to ask here, because I have not found any online Rexx
> forums that I can use.
>
> I would like to learn some programming skills for the following:
> - write simple scripts to automate some tasks on Linux.
> - write simple CLI programs to keep track of information and do other fun
> tasks for me, hobby stuff.
> - might like to get into some web development, but this would be on a
> hobby scale to create web apps for personal use, like a small database app
> with forms and search capabilities.
>
> I have tried to learn Python, but it seemed like you needed to learn all
> sorts of different libraries ("import ...") before you could do anything
> with it, even for simple command line programs.
> I have tried learning basic, which I kind of liked, but did not find a
> version on Linux that was similar to Qbasic which I was learning.
>
> I have considered trying Python again, PHP, BASH, and Javascript (this
> last one mostly because of neat programs like TiddlyWiki and S5
> Presentations, but I understand that programing the DOM is not easy at all
> and might be the hardest type of programing.
>
> Then I found out about Rexx which allows you to use Linux CLI commands in
> the program code, which sounded interesting. The syntax also looked as
> easy as Basic.
>
> I would appreciate this group's opinion. I'm concerned about a lack of
> help when I get stuck, and I just don't hear about Rexx very much at all.
> Is it still a good language for a beginner or should everyone just use
> Python?

Yes, Rexx is a good language to learn. There are more popular
interpreters/languages which you'll probably need to know for employment
purposes. Perl and Python are prominent. Java and .net are probably
winners in the corporate world for web development.

>
> mowestusa


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On 3 Jul 2008 23:02:16 GMT, mowestusa <mowestusa@somewhere.com>
declaimed the following in comp.lang.rexx:

>
> I have tried to learn Python, but it seemed like you needed to learn all
> sorts of different libraries ("import ...") before you could do anything

Python /is/ a simple language -- the language reference is only
something like 80 pages (or was the last time I looked at it).

Yes, there are a lot of standard libraries... But you can do lots of
stuff without touching anything beyond sys (if you want to obtain
command line arguments, for example) and os/os.path (if you want access
to things like file attributes, directory listings, etc.)

> Then I found out about Rexx which allows you to use Linux CLI commands in
> the program code, which sounded interesting. The syntax also looked as
> easy as Basic.
>
Rexx has some got'cha items... Having an IBM ancestry, it tends to
treat everything as uppercase. Line continuation is a , -- which means
if you have a list of parameters that continues to another line, you
need
something parm1, parm2, ,
parm3, parm4, ,
parm5

As for the fact that any statement that is not recognized as a Rexx
statement is passed to the command shell... the nearest equivalent in
Python is simply

os.system("command line")

Unfortunately, no other operating system (that I'm familar with)
supports the message ports that the old AmigaOS had... On the Amiga,
/any/ application could "open" an ARexx message port, allowing ARexx
programs to address them directory -- so it wasn't just CLI/shell
commands that could be used; one could directly address a text editor,
for example. An ARexx script could, thereby, be used to parse a
compiler's error message output, find the errors positions, direct an
editor to open the relevant file, move to the line/column reported for
the error, etc.

Windows/Linux languages tend to live off the Unix "Pipe" (standard
output of one program goes to standard input of another -- a rather
one-way process, not responsive to automating a highly interactive
process).

I loved ARexx... But after having learned Rexx on the Amiga, I find
the Windows/Linux Rexx implementations limiting -- and Python syntax is
quite easy to write (there have been some who call it "executable
pseudocode").

I don't do PERL... And the few times someone else has asked me to
help them figure out some PERL code I usually ask them to explain
exactly what they are trying to achieve, scratch out some Python to do
that, and then reference a PERL book to translate the library functions
from Python to the nearest PERL equivalent (I presume the person seeking
help at least knows the PERL syntax rules)

My normal suggestion -- attempt to learn the basics of algorithm
development; if one knows how to formulate a problem as an algorithm it
is usually not that difficult to translate an algorithm into the syntax
of any common language. One can then study the syntax of various
languages and implement the algorithm in each...

--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com wulfraed@bestiaria.com
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: web-asst@bestiaria.com)
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/

On Jul 3, 6:02 pm, mowestusa <mowest...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> I have never programmed.
> I have don't need to program for my job.
> I enjoy computers as a hobby and as a tool for work.
> I prefer using Linux.
> ...

First of all, let me get my bias out of the way. I have been using
Rexx for must be 25 years, and I love it as a language. So this will
sound like a raving recommendation of Rexx. That said, I would say
that Rexx will do you just fine.

I find it very easy to use for most things. I am sure this is result
of Mike Cowlishaw's (the creator of Rexx) adherence to the "Principle
of Least Astonishment". Which means that it will probably do what you
expect it to do, at least most of the time. Some other languages are
significantly more arcane, Rexx is easier to read (unless you are
expert in whatever arcane language you are reading).

Rexx allows you to quickly code simple programs, and can take on huge
things as well. Of course for some problems there may be a more
suitable language, but that needn't stop you trying to use Rexx.
Notably Rexx is an interpreted language (although for some platforms
there is a compiler available) so a large program will probably run
more slowly than if it was in some other compiled language. For most
of what I do, it doesn't take more than at most a very small number of
seconds to run, so there is no penalty in being interpreted. (If you
aren't familiar with the difference between interpreted and compiled,
don't worry about that yet.)

There are many very helpful people around who know a lot about Rexx.
Support in this newsgroup is top notch! There are far more people who
use the alternatives you mention so support for them is good too, but
I wouldn't worry about lack of support for Rexx. The only place I
would like more support for Rexx is with web hosting companies. I
would just love to write all my CGI and DHTML in Rexx, but that
requires a Rexx interpreter to be installed on the web server. That
can certainly be done, but most hosts won't unless you sign up for
something like somewhat more expensive Virtual Private Server hosting.

ooRexx is a combination of traditional procedural coding and object
oriented coding. That is good. I understand procedural coding well,
but have had more trouble getting my head around object oriented. (I
haven't tried all that hard.) Having not started with procedural you
probably won;t have as much trouble.

Try Rexx. It is free and you will probably like it.

-- Alex Armstrong, Toronto, Canada.

In <k6KdnTA9Ipk1KfDVnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink.com> , on 07/03/2008
at 10:27 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> said:

> Rexx has some got'cha items...

As does every language that I've ever used.

>Having an IBM ancestry, it tends to
>treat everything as uppercase.

No.

>Line continuation is a ,

Yes, but that's no worse than any other choice. The real problem was the
decision to not make semicolons mandatory.

> As for the fact that any statement that is not recognized as a Rexx
>statement is passed to the command shell...

It isn't a fact. A bare expression is evaluated and the *value* is passed
to the current environment, which need not be the command shell.

>the nearest equivalent in
>Python is simply
> os.system("command line")

That isn't equivalent when the current environment is, e.g., an editor.

> Unfortunately, no other operating system (that I'm familar with)
>supports the message ports that the old AmigaOS had...

Nor are they needed. CMS and TSO were able to support the REXX
environments without them.

>An ARexx script could, thereby, be used to parse a
>compiler's error message output, find the errors positions, direct an
>editor to open the relevant file, move to the line/column reported for
>the error, etc.

People were doing that in REXX before tha Amiga existed.

> Windows/Linux languages tend to live off the Unix "Pipe"

When the only tool that you have in your toolbox is a pipe, everything
looks like a filter.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
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In <g4jlpo01r5h@enews5.newsguy.com>, on 07/03/2008
at 11:02 PM, mowestusa <mowestusa@somewhere.com> said:

>Is it still a good language for a beginner or should everyone just use
>Python?

IMHO it is still a good language for beginners, although it does have some
pitfalls. As for Python, I prefer Perl. Like any other languages, REXX has
its pitfalls; you may want to read "Practicing Safe REXX" (OS/2 Magazine,
Volume 2 Number 2 (February 1995)) at
<http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9812safe.html> and
<http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9901safe.htm"> from the REXXLA web site.

Pay attention to the actual REXX documentation and beware of sloppy
tutorials; it's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot when you read
inaccurate descriptions of any programming language.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
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