How do I modify a selection ?

I use version 1.2.5 of The Gimp. It's an old version, but what I'm trying
to do is a most basic operation when, say, you want to create a picture
for a desktop: I want to modify a selection while keeping the aspect ratio.

I found out that you can create a selection of a given ratio by going to
the Dialog menu(1) of the selection tool. This dialog menu only appears in
the File menu of the GIMP interface, not if you right-click on the picture.

I have then found all kind of ways to bend the selection left and right,
but absolutely no way to do the most basic opereation: enlarge the
selection while keeping the aspect ration.

When I was using PaintShopPro in Windows, the ratio of the selection was
indicated in the status bar whenever it was modified. Pulling or pushing
the corners would enlarge or shrink the selection while keeping the aspect
ratio. Pulling the site would enlarge or shrink the selection while
modifying the aspect ratio. What's the advantage of having to open the
File - Dialog - Tool Options menu , then having to select whatever aspect
ratio you want and having to return to the menu if ever you want to change
it -- because, of course, menus close every time you choose an option --
whereas PSP could do that with the click of the mouse? I'm not sure I get
this.

I've googled the manuals, the guides, the tutorials: nothing. For a
moment, I tought I had found it: right click on the picture, select Select
- Grow, enlarge the size in the interface, then move the selection
anywhere you want with CTRL+ALT + mouse. Unfortunately the corners are
rounded automatically and I see no way to change this.

I'm appalled by all the time I've lost again this afternoon trying to
accomplish a basic operation that is so self-evident in an amateur
software in Windows. As I write these lines, The GIMP appears to me as an
awful lost of time, both in terms of learning as in a production context.

I don't care that the GIMP doesn't offer CMYK or that it does so through a
plug-in that might not work as well with Adobe's Pantone. I don't care
that's it's not entirely vector base or that it doesn't offer 24 bit
colors. But after all the hype I've read on the net about The GIMP, I
would expect it to do what's it's supposed to do without so much headache.
Reading all Those Fucking Manuals has no value per se, the only thing that
matters is having the job done efficiently. The fact that the GIMP is free
is no excuse: even paid at the minimum wage, you'd be much better off
buying a commercial software than using the GIMP. And that's exactly
Microsoft's argument for selling its software...

At the present time, I can't see how I can get halfway productive with The
GIMP. Every new step of learning is a nightmare. So, I wonder if there's
something very fundamental that I don't get or if the hype is totally
undeserved. Does GIMPShop make things so much easier? Will I still have to
open and reopen menus to achieve the most basic operations?

I suppose comp.graphics.apps.gimp is where the GIMP experts are. I hope
you can light my lantern.

Yugo <nobody@nowhere.com> writes:

> I use version 1.2.5 of The Gimp. It's an old version, but what I'm
> trying to do is a most basic operation when, say, you want to create a
> picture for a desktop: I want to modify a selection while keeping the
> aspect ratio.

You can scale the selection and keep the aspect ratio while doing
so. I have however no idea if this is already possible in 1.2.


HTH,
Michael

--
GIMP > http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp
Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de
Plug-ins > http://registry.gimp.org |

Yugo wrote:

> I use version 1.2.5 of The Gimp. It's an old version, but what I'm trying
> to do is a most basic operation when, say, you want to create a picture
> for a desktop: I want to modify a selection while keeping the aspect
> ratio.
>
> I found out that you can create a selection of a given ratio by going to
> the Dialog menu(1) of the selection tool. This dialog menu only appears in
> the File menu of the GIMP interface, not if you right-click on the
> picture.
>
> I have then found all kind of ways to bend the selection left and right,
> but absolutely no way to do the most basic opereation: enlarge the
> selection while keeping the aspect ration.
>
> When I was using PaintShopPro in Windows, the ratio of the selection was
> indicated in the status bar whenever it was modified. Pulling or pushing
> the corners would enlarge or shrink the selection while keeping the aspect
> ratio. Pulling the site would enlarge or shrink the selection while
> modifying the aspect ratio. What's the advantage of having to open the
> File - Dialog - Tool Options menu , then having to select whatever aspect
> ratio you want and having to return to the menu if ever you want to change
> it -- because, of course, menus close every time you choose an option --
> whereas PSP could do that with the click of the mouse? I'm not sure I get
> this.
>
> I've googled the manuals, the guides, the tutorials: nothing. For a
> moment, I tought I had found it: right click on the picture, select Select
> - Grow, enlarge the size in the interface, then move the selection
> anywhere you want with CTRL+ALT + mouse. Unfortunately the corners are
> rounded automatically and I see no way to change this.
>
> I'm appalled by all the time I've lost again this afternoon trying to
> accomplish a basic operation that is so self-evident in an amateur
> software in Windows. As I write these lines, The GIMP appears to me as an
> awful lost of time, both in terms of learning as in a production context.
>
> I don't care that the GIMP doesn't offer CMYK or that it does so through a
> plug-in that might not work as well with Adobe's Pantone. I don't care
> that's it's not entirely vector base or that it doesn't offer 24 bit
> colors. But after all the hype I've read on the net about The GIMP, I
> would expect it to do what's it's supposed to do without so much headache.
> Reading all Those Fucking Manuals has no value per se, the only thing that
> matters is having the job done efficiently. The fact that the GIMP is free
> is no excuse: even paid at the minimum wage, you'd be much better off
> buying a commercial software than using the GIMP. And that's exactly
> Microsoft's argument for selling its software...
>
> At the present time, I can't see how I can get halfway productive with The
> GIMP. Every new step of learning is a nightmare. So, I wonder if there's
> something very fundamental that I don't get or if the hype is totally
> undeserved. Does GIMPShop make things so much easier? Will I still have to
> open and reopen menus to achieve the most basic operations?
>
> I suppose comp.graphics.apps.gimp is where the GIMP experts are. I hope
> you can light my lantern.

Well I'm glad to see you found the correct newsgroup to post your Gimp
questions. Is there a reason you can't upgrade to a newer version ?? The
older version which you are using is very limited in its' capabilities.
Last time I tried to install in Windows it only took about 20-30 minutes.
I am quite certain you would find a newer version much more useful.

http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html


AS most users are not using the one you are it is difficult to 'go back' and
figure out how to do what you are trying. Forget reading the manuals.
Just try the newer version. And in a short while version 2.4 will be
released. All the features you want are in there. As I use the unstable
version (2.3.10) I can tell you these features are much improved.

P.S. I hope you can get over my earlier response to you. I was in a bad
mood. I apologize. ;-(

As for doing what you want in the older version make your selection. Then
edit -> copy. Then ->edit -> paste as -> new image. In the new image
select ->image -> scale. If you leave the lock icon alone changing one
value (width or height) scale the image while retaining the aspect ratio.

I'm fairly certain the version you're using functioned that way.

Michael Soibelman wrote:

> Is there a reason you can't upgrade to a newer version ??

None other than I use a 2 years old version of Slackware and many
softwares need upgrading, with the libraries changes and so on. I decided
I'd change all with my next change to Suse or Debian.

> The
> older version which you are using is very limited in its' capabilities.

> And in a short while version 2.4 will be
> released. All the features you want are in there.

You mean you can change size or ratio with only a click of the mouse? That
would be a pleasant surprise, but I can't help doubting it will ever
happen. We're told so oftent that th enext version will be better!
Windows', not necessarily Microsoft's, and Linux's software development
follow different routes.

The first version of a Windows software usually offers only very basic
features, but they work. Linux's developers OTOH often seem compelled to
offer all the paraphernalia of options that are at best awkard to use.
Sometimes they don't work at all. All the options seem to appear in
haphazard ways, they're repeated, they're in a menu here, but not there
and appear in some menus where you don't expect them at all. And when
you're tired of searching and you ask, you're told to RTFM when, the
doctumentation which, though it comes in thousands and thousands and
thousands of pages, rarely answers your questions.

This is a serious problem with Linux's development. I hope distro
developpers can orient developers in a more structured kind of development
by offering ONLY better thought-out software. From what I read on
Kanotix's forum, it seems that The GIMP will be dumped from the next release.

I don't know what will replace it. Maybe KDE's new IMP ? If so, it's
certainly far less powerful than The GIMP. But if users can at least
reframe a picture for their desktop without headaches, it would certainly
be a step in the right direction.

Tough quite powerful, programs like The GIMP give users so many heaches,
such a bad experience of Linux software, that they're certainly not a good
publicity for Linux. I put more hope in a little program that does its
thing cleanly that in a program that has been in developmen tfor years and
never succeeded in being but a joke productivity-wise.

Sorry to be harsh, but that's the way I feel. Now, if only I could
remember the name of that KDE program... Must be another acronym or
"inspired" name that bears no relation to the program's use. When are we
going to get out of this nonsense?


> P.S. I hope you can get over my earlier response to you. I was in a bad
> mood. I apologize. ;-(

No problem. Before you answer this time, try to think if there is not a
semblance of common sense in what I write here too. I'm not against Linux
because I say some things don't work. Linux's development did start 10
years after Microsoft's, but it started in Unix tracks. It was a huge
advantage -- see what Mac has done in so little time of this advnatage! --
that Linux was never able to capitalize on to build a market share. And
even though Linux is free software, market share is important, otherwise
Microsoft will set the standards -- these days, mainly through buying ISPs
-- and all you'll be able to do with your Linux computer is play solitaire
in your basement.

> As for doing what you want in the older version make your selection. Then
> edit -> copy. Then ->edit -> paste as -> new image. In the new image
> select ->image -> scale. If you leave the lock icon alone changing one
> value (width or height) scale the image while retaining the aspect ratio.
>
> I'm fairly certain the version you're using functioned that way.

No, it won't. Pasting the selection as a new image won't permit to grow
the selection. You can scale it, but not grow on what is not there
anymore. Anyways, for now, I'll redraw the selection until I find a
software that's more concerned about productivity.

Note: I was able once to grow a selection with the shift key and pulling a
corner, but only once. Maybe there is a bug or I accidentally did
something else that I didn't noticed.

Yugo wrote:


> Sorry to be harsh, but that's the way I feel. Now, if only I could
> remember the name of that KDE program...

For the records, it's a KOffice project called Krita. The name is
self-evident: everybody knows that Rita is very much in photo retouching.

Lord! So much work, so little common sense!

Michael Soibelman wrote:

> Well I'm glad to see you found the correct newsgroup to post your Gimp
> questions.

Yes, I suppose I did: there's hardly anybody here. What remains to be seen
is if it's because The GIMP is so easy to use or because, despite all the
hype, nobody uses it.

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:48:39 -0400, Yugo <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I use version 1.2.5 of The Gimp. It's an old version, but what I'm trying
>to do is a most basic operation when, say, you want to create a picture
>for a desktop: I want to modify a selection while keeping the aspect ratio.
>
>I found out that you can create a selection of a given ratio by going to
>the Dialog menu(1) of the selection tool. This dialog menu only appears in
>the File menu of the GIMP interface, not if you right-click on the picture.
>
>I have then found all kind of ways to bend the selection left and right,
>but absolutely no way to do the most basic opereation: enlarge the
>selection while keeping the aspect ration.

The 2.2 version of GIMP will allow you to make rectangular or ellipsoid
selection freely or with a set aspect ratio.

You can then manipulate that selection with normal editing tools, such
as scale, which can be set to enlarge keeping width, height or aspect
fixed. Other tools like crop can have aspect ratio set or maintained.

Forget GIMP 1.2, you're just giving yourself a bad impression of what is
now a much better program IMO.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

Doctor J. Frink wrote:

> Forget GIMP 1.2, you're just giving yourself a bad impression of what is
> now a much better program IMO.

Well, since version 2.4 is just about to come out in two or three months,
it should correspond to the time I'll change my distro. I suppose it will
be included and I'll certainly give it a try.

But, you know, that version of PSP I tried was number 4. It was around...
1998, I suppose. It's now up to 10. Certainly, it didn't offer all The
GIMP's options, but it was functional. You didn't have to search for and
read the fucking manuals for hours to perform the most simple tasks. You
didn't have to open menus to just create... and resize a fixed aspect
ratio selection.

Excuse me, but I'm a bit fed up with all the hype and the meager results.
Michael Soibelman says that the next release will be a real breakthrough
in terms of usability. Sorry, I'm not a believer anymore. The GIMP has now
been in development for more than ten years and it still hasn't got an
efficient interface. Seeing the priority the GIMP team gives to its interface:

GIMP had eight projects accepted for this Summer of Code:

* Vector Layers
* Vanishing Point Cloning
* Healing Brush Tool
* GIMP Resource repository
* New Brush System
* JPEG 2000
* Ruby Scripting
* UI Improvements

I doubt very much that 2.4 will be much easier to use than 2.2 or 1.2. I
could hope and pray but I don't believe anymore in anything except more
headaches coming from The GIMP.

This crufty crap is way overhyped.

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:35:29 -0400, Yugo <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>This crufty crap is way overhyped.

Don't use it then.

You paid nothing for it, get free help for it and can even join in and
(help) fix things you don't like. If that's not good enough for you, pay
up for something else and use that.

Whinging on like a selfish git will get you nowhere.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

Doctor J. Frink wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:35:29 -0400, Yugo <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>This crufty crap is way overhyped.
>
>
> Don't use it then.
>
> You paid nothing for it, get free help for it and can even join in and
> (help) fix things you don't like. If that's not good enough for you, pay
> up for something else and use that.
>
> Whinging on like a selfish git will get you nowhere.

Yes, that's a very good description of the Linux spirit. If you're a
beta-tester for commercial software, they listen to you religiously
because they intend to sell the software to somebody like you and they
want to make sure it's utmostly functional.

Linux developers have a more simple view on the matter. They say "It's
free, stop whining!" That's how after 15 years of development Linux hasn't
caught 1% of the... voter's market. You know, those people who cast a ballot.

Keep up the good spirit!