Sound Node in BS Contact

l_hodges@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
> My next main problem is Java. I have a homemade avatar poser that uses a
> Java applet and an embedded vrml browser that worked well on the Windows
> 98 machine on which it was developed. And it still does. However it
> hasn't transposed successfully to my XP desktop, complaining that it can't
> find some vrml classes.

Well thats a mean one - BS and PG don't support java.
Check this VRML client setup:
http://www.vrspace.org:8080/forum/viewtopic.jbb?t=11
It will probably solve the problem.

However, your potential users will have to do the same, and I found it
impossible to achieve.

And that's only for IE. I wasn't able to expose VRML plugins to java
applets with mozilla. Well in fact I was, using javascript and
liveconnect etc. but that's too unstable.

Regards...

In article <g5kjoq$nb9$1@garrison.bnet.hr>, joe@vrspace.org (Josip Almasi)
wrote:

> l_hodges@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > My next main problem is Java. I have a homemade avatar poser that
> > uses a Java applet and an embedded vrml browser that worked well on
> > the Windows 98 machine on which it was developed. And it still does.
[I am wrong about that. The vrml browser window containing the avatar and
the Java applet appear but there is no intercommunication.]
> > However it hasn't transposed successfully to my XP desktop,
> > complaining that it can't find some vrml classes.
>
> Well thats a mean one - BS and PG don't support java.
> Check this VRML client setup:
> http://www.vrspace.org:8080/forum/viewtopic.jbb?t=11
> It will probably solve the problem.
>
> However, your potential users will have to do the same, and I found it
> impossible to achieve.

First: your link (above) didn't work for me.
Second: I have no potential users for my poser. It is a homemade tool to
provide key frames for my humanoid animations. All I want to do is to
revive it in order to continue with a project that I was working on. It
used to work on an old machine (I said Windows 98 but it may well have
been 95!) and an old environment. Now it doesn't. It is probably a
matter of getting the correct search paths for the various classes. I am
so rusty that I am having trouble doing the simplest things.

Thanks for your input.


Lawrie Hodges

On Jul 17, 1:00*pm, l_hod...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article <g5kjoq$nb...@garrison.bnet.hr>, j...@vrspace.org (Josip Almasi)
> wrote:
>
> > l_hod...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
> > > My next main problem is Java. I have a homemade avatar poser that
> > > uses a Java applet and an embedded vrml browser that worked well on
> > > the Windows 98 machine on which it was developed. *And it still does.
>
> [I am wrong about that. The vrml browser window containing the avatar and
> the Java applet appear but there is no intercommunication.]
>
> > > *However it hasn't transposed successfully to my XP desktop,
> > > complaining that it can't find some vrml classes.
>
> > Well thats a mean one - BS and PG don't support java.
> > Check this VRML client setup:
> >http://www.vrspace.org:8080/forum/viewtopic.jbb?t=11
> > It will probably solve the problem.
>
> > However, your potential users will have to do the same, and I found it
> > impossible to achieve.
>
> First: your link (above) didn't work for me.
> Second: I have no potential users for my poser. *It is a homemade tool to
> provide key frames for my humanoid animations. All I want to do is to
> revive it in order to continue with a project that I was working on. *It
> used to work on an old machine (I said Windows 98 but it may well have
> been 95!) and an old environment. *Now it doesn't. *It is probably a
> matter of getting the correct search paths for the various classes. I am
> so rusty that I am having trouble doing the simplest things.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> * * Lawrie Hodges

Old stuff but still works:
In terms of Java, you can install multiple instances of swan song
Netscape 4.8
You should be able to get 4.8 from Netscape archive.
and establish Cosmoplayer, BSContact (which works great with 4.8) and
Cortona as sole vrml plugins in the respective plugin folder of each
Netscape instance. You might need to move the Cosmoplayer and Cortona
classes
(plywood.jar) from the plugin folder to Netscapes java classes
folder.

New and buggy:
You might want to try any of the following on your XP machine:
OctagaPlayer http://www.octaga.com
It has JSAI capability assuming you have latest Sun Java installed.
If your work was with EAI you will need to do some re-writing.
It works best with java standalone mode rather than as a plugin.
Using the Sun jvm as a plugin can be problematic.
Currently doesn't do more than one instance of Protos written from
String.
In other words currently useless for MU avatars, but it may work for
your use.

InstantPlayer http://www.instantreality.org
standalone VRML/X3D browser in beta
Has both EAI and JSAI capability with latest Sun JVM.
JSAI is buggy and only works with the basic the JSAI script functions:
initialize, shutdown and processEvent
EAI only works when within another java application.
Seems to be cross platform java wise -at least my Mac installation
as necessary java classes installed.
There are tutorials at the site and the developers there respond
quickly and
helpfully in the forum. InstantReality gets a big thumbs up from me.


finally
Xj3D standalone with SAI and JSAI capability some limited older EAI
capability
with latest Sun jvm.
Expect it to be fussy.
http://www.xj3d.org

tc
Russ Kinter

Thanks for that Russ. Very helpful.

Lawrie Hodges

<l_hodges@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nIqdnTpNe4SRKeHVnZ2dnUVZ8qLinZ2d@pipex.net...
> In article <ZvidnRClYux8G-bVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> joedwil@earthlink.net (Joe D Williams) wrote:
>
> Thanks for your links. I have already had a brief look at them, following
> your previous posting.
>
>> I have some understanding of that situation. Flux/Vivaty, or Octaga or
>> BSContact or Cortona, or a couple of others all work better in .wrl
>> files than that old stuff now. What are you using as a player
>
> I have not got going on any new stuff yet but I graduated to an early
> version of Cortona some years ago and fetched up with V4.1. I have avoided
> V5.x because of its annoying logo although I do have it now on my laptop.


> My default web-browser is Firefox and default vrml Browser is Flux.

OK, so if you use the Windows file explorer, if you right click on the .wrl,
..x3d or .x3dv file it will give you a menu including Open With, and from
there give you a choice of installed X3D browsers. If you just click the
file,
or select Open, it will open with probably the last installed X3D browser.
Tell if you have questions about this or if it doesn't work.

With Firefox, if you click a .wrl or .x3d or .x3dv link from a web page. it
just downloads and runs the scene in a sandbox, so all links should be set
up for absolute urls:

I would say to get a text version of your old user code and forget all the
old stuff that needs obsolete and no longer supported players. All the new
clients are so much better that anyone using old 5- hosts aren't worth the
attempt except purely targeted missionary efforts. Right now you can
probably install every current X3D player withour messing up the system and
still have complete control of which X3D browser is used as default in any
W3C host.

> Other
> than those, I have on my Desktop IE coupled with Cortona,

Every current browser you have installed is 'coupled' to IE (see Open With).
Once a player is installed, you can set it to use any of the installed
players by changing the prefs.

And, once you get the X3D browser window, you can get to local and network
resources.

> Opera/CosmoPlayer and Netscape 4.1/BS Contact, more than enough to drive
> me mad.

I/we understand. Leave that madness behind. It is now easier than ever
because Windows is more friendly. Update to IE8beta and latest Ff, Opera,
Safari, other?


> Ensuring that all those work both locally and remotely is
> sufficient of a headache.

You cannot need to do that today.


> I had a brief look at the Octaga site but that
> also has the intrusive logo so I left it alone.

Tha is OK, you can just use it when you need it.

>
> My next main problem is Java. I have a homemade avatar poser that uses a
> Java applet and an embedded vrml browser that worked well on the Windows
> 98 machine on which it was developed. And it still does. However it
> hasn't transposed successfully to my XP desktop, complaining that it can't
> find some vrml classes. After that I have to understand the new H-Anim
> spec (and my old code!) and see if I can manipulate my hybrid to conform.
> It didn't when I wrote it because I wanted several avatars of the same
> type and made my morris man a PROTO. This was not then standard. It is
> now, I think.

I am definately interested in H-Anim. Are you targeting realtime or fixed
fps type animations?
So far two X3D browsers I know of will run the latest H-Anim natively.

> So, I am in a valley surrounded by learning curves, or slopes,
> since we are in 3D.

When it works, it is fun.


> Thanks again for your help.
>
>
> Lawrie Hodges
>

Good Luck and Best Regards,
Joe

I am beginning to lose track in this thread for which the title is
no longer appropriate. So first I have changed the title. In any case my
original query is answered: BS Contact does not support midi. It used to,
apparently, but changes to MediaPlayer broke it.

Next, to try to clear my head about terminology/jargon,
joedwil@earthlink.net (Joe D Williams) wrote:
> With Firefox, if you click a .wrl or .x3d or .x3dv link from a web
> page. it just downloads and runs the scene in a sandbox, so all links
> should be set up for absolute urls:
What is a sandbox?


> All the new clients are so much better that anyone using old 5- hosts
> aren't worth the attempt except purely targeted missionary efforts.
What is a 5- host?


> I am definitely interested in H-Anim. Are you targeting realtime or
> fixed fps type animations?
I am not sure that I understand the distinction.

> So far two X3D browsers I know of will run the latest H-Anim natively.
Do they support midi?
-----

My last animation
http://www.cix.co.uk/~l-hodges/me/xcard2/xcard2H.htm

was a morris jig (a solo dance accompanied by a musician) written in 2000.
It is realised as a collection of linked .wrl files. The principal file,
dancer.wrl, contains some JavaScript nodes to control the starting of the
music and of the dance but there is no Java content or interaction.
The animation is created simply by ROUTEing and Interpolator Nodes. The
music was created as a midi file. In view of the lack of support for midi
in Flux and BS Contact I attempted to replace the .mid with .mp3 (4kB
compared with 1.5 MB) but there are problems with synchronisation and the
published version retains the .mid music. Proper viewing therefore needs
*Cortona* or *CosmoPlayer*.
The biggest problem was to create the key frames for the
animation. Writing these by hand would have been well nigh impossible so
I wrote myself a poser. Some detail of this is given in an earlier posting
and also on my web site.
The new project will be to produce a double-jig (two dancers and a
musician) possibly animating all three. As you say, I shall have to
graduate to up-to-date software. The poser needs tweaking, but I don't
want to re-write that. But I will need to recreate my morris men to
fit the new H-anim spec if possible. My morris man is a crude doll. I
don't have the facilities for the creation of a smoother and more
sophisticated figure and he would then be inappropriate for the rather
crude approximations to the dance movements.

The ultimate in this genre would be a full six-man or eight man
dance but I shall not live long enough to do that I guess. In any case my
current hardware will probably not cope.

There is a long way to go. Thank you for your interest and help.

Lawrie Hodges

<l_hodges@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rZidnbBmOdOghxjVnZ2dnUVZ8h2dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> I am beginning to lose track in this thread for which the title is
> no longer appropriate. So first I have changed the title. In any case my
> original query is answered: BS Contact does not support midi. It used to,
> apparently, but changes to MediaPlayer broke it.

Too bad.

>
> Next, to try to clear my head about terminology/jargon,
> joedwil@earthlink.net (Joe D Williams) wrote:
>> With Firefox, if you click a .wrl or .x3d or .x3dv link from a web
>> page. it just downloads and runs the scene in a sandbox, so all links
>> should be set up for absolute urls:

OK, but first, do you see how to select the 3D browser to play the file
type - Open With?

> What is a sandbox?

For this, I meant the execution space of the plugin. For example it is my
current experience that if I click an X3D file on a web page, then Ff
downloads the file and opens a separate window. The window runs in a
'sandbox' because Ff executes it from a file it picks that has no access
outside that local file directory I think because Ff continues to manage the
pugin network interface. So, what I am seeing is that I must include
absolute urls because Ff won't fetch relative urls correctly due to the
sandboxing. Otherwise, a sandbox is just a place to play and get sandy.

>> All the new clients are so much better that anyone using old 5- hosts
>> aren't worth the attempt except purely targeted missionary efforts.
> What is a 5- host?

There I meant W3C browsers earlier than 5 but I really mean anything but the
latest W3C browser and the latest available of all X3D browsers.
Really, why worry about that old wreckage other than to show somebody what
they are missing if they stick with the old stuff. .

>
>> I am definitely interested in H-Anim. Are you targeting realtime or
>> fixed fps type animations?
> I am not sure that I understand the distinction.

I think I am seeing more and more distinction. For example, animations
intended for recording may use a fixed number of keyframes per second to
accomplish a movement. For realtime, you may only need a few carefully
chosen keyframes and interpolators to get an equivalent result.

For example can you see any of this?

http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ncyAnims2.x3dv
http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ancyAnims2.txt
http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ancyAnims2.htm

But back to Java, can you get Xj3D running?

>
>> So far two X3D browsers I know of will run the latest H-Anim natively.
> Do they support midi?

Sorry that isn't working for you.

> -----
>
> My last animation
> http://www.cix.co.uk/~l-hodges/me/xcard2/xcard2H.htm
>
> was a morris jig (a solo dance accompanied by a musician) written in 2000.
> It is realised as a collection of linked .wrl files. The principal file,
> dancer.wrl, contains some JavaScript nodes to control the starting of the
> music and of the dance but there is no Java content or interaction.
> The animation is created simply by ROUTEing and Interpolator Nodes. The
> music was created as a midi file. In view of the lack of support for midi
> in Flux and BS Contact I attempted to replace the .mid with .mp3 (4kB
> compared with 1.5 MB) but there are problems with synchronisation and the
> published version retains the .mid music. Proper viewing therefore needs
> *Cortona* or *CosmoPlayer*.
> The biggest problem was to create the key frames for the
> animation. Writing these by hand would have been well nigh impossible so
> I wrote myself a poser. Some detail of this is given in an earlier posting
> and also on my web site.
> The new project will be to produce a double-jig (two dancers and a
> musician) possibly animating all three. As you say, I shall have to
> graduate to up-to-date software. The poser needs tweaking, but I don't
> want to re-write that. But I will need to recreate my morris men to
> fit the new H-anim spec if possible. My morris man is a crude doll. I
> don't have the facilities for the creation of a smoother and more
> sophisticated figure and he would then be inappropriate for the rather
> crude approximations to the dance movements.

I think that is a neat dance animation. One of them, the one facing the
view, moves. No music.
It runs in my Version bsContactVrml 7.105 , but blows Vivaty. probably due
to script. .

>
> The ultimate in this genre would be a full six-man or eight man
> dance but I shall not live long enough to do that I guess. In any case my
> current hardware will probably not cope.

You can't really know until you try.

>
> There is a long way to go. Thank you for your interest and help.

It is a long way from anywhere since this is basically endless refinement of
detail.

>
> Lawrie Hodges

Good Luck and Best Regards,
Joe

On 14 Jul, 18:03, "Joe D Williams" <joed...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > (Joe D Williams) wrote:
>
> I have some understanding of that situation. Flux/Vivaty, or Octaga or
> BSContact or Cortona, or a couple of others all work better in .wrl files
> than that old stuff now. What are you using as a player?

Do you?

Me too, back to vrml/x3d after years. I have started trying the "new"
stuff, and the situation seems even worse than it was 10 years ago,
when we at least had Cosmo Player we could rely upon.

No one of the browsers I have tried "works" as soon as even the
simpliest scripting is involved (not to talk about the external SAI,
just good to crash any browser ever). That means: however cool you can
make it, it's got no chance to become a real world WORKING
APPLICATION.

Take Flux: not even arrays, and external sai => sure crash. Take
Vivaty: not even a link to the past technology, they have cleaned-up
as in a big scum. Take Cortona: 1 million dollars to get the API spec:
I mean, including the standard X3D one! If you need a refernce to the
vrowser, go dig the web for some example that has not been removed
yet. And I'll have to try the rest of the family very soon: what fun
it's gonna be.

They are all just a bunch of idiots, the whole Consortium with it. The
whole industry is just a bunch of guys boycotting each other to get
first to the virtual chats business. Even Google is trying: The future
is here, it's called "let's have a chat". How clever! The human kind
is an unexhaustible source of amazement.

-LV

joedwil@earthlink.net (Joe D Williams) wrote:

> OK, but first, do you see how to select the 3D browser to play the file
> type - Open With?
Yes. On a local .wrl file, Open With gives me the options: Internet
Explorer, BSContact Player Wrapper Application, Flux Player, Netscape
Navigator, Firefox, Opera Internet Browser and a couple of editors.
On my Desk top computer, running XP professional IE is associated
with Cortona, Netscape with BSContact, Firefox with Vivaty/Flux and Opera
with CosmoPlayer.
On the other hand, on my laptop running Vista, I find it much more
difficult to control the associations. Currently both IE and Ff are
running Cortona. Although I wanted IE to run Flux. I have had to load
Opera specially to be able to run Flux in a web-Browser.

> >> All the new clients are so much better
Yet, while I used to be able to invoke midi files with Intervista,
CosmoPlayer and Cortona, now only Cortona among the modern browsers can
cope. While I used to run a model invoking a Java class and Cortona 4.1,
Cortona 5 no longer supports Java! Yet another model bites the dust.


> >> I am definitely interested in H-Anim. Are you targeting realtime or
> >> fixed fps type animations?
> > I am not sure that I understand the distinction.
>
> I think I am seeing more and more distinction. For example, animations
> intended for recording may use a fixed number of keyframes per second
> to accomplish a movement. For realtime, you may only need a few
> carefully chosen keyframes and interpolators to get an equivalent
> result.
>
That suggests that I am targetting real-time

> For example can you see any of this?
>
> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ncyAnims2.x3dv
> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ancyAnims2.txt
> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/h...ancyAnims2.htm
>
Yes, I have seen this recently while surfing around. And, I met 'Nancy'
some years ago and exchanged a few posts with Cindy Ballreich on the
subject of human body movement. She recommended me a classic text.

> But back to Java, can you get Xj3D running?
Yes, I have now. No midi support, as you say, so I can't use it
for my main animations unless I can be be sure of adequate synchronisation
with .mp3.
Do you have any recommendation as to a web-browser within which to
run Xj3d?


>
> > -----
> >
> > My last animation
> > http://www.cix.co.uk/~l-hodges/me/xcard2/xcard2H.htm
> >
> > was a morris jig (a solo dance accompanied by a musician) written in
> > 2000.It is realised as a collection of linked .wrl files. The
> > principal file, dancer.wrl, contains some JavaScript nodes to control
> > the starting of the music and of the dance but there is no Java
> > content or interaction.
> > The animation is created simply by ROUTEing and Interpolator Nodes.
> > The music was created as a midi file.
>
> I think that is a neat dance animation. One of them, the one facing the
> view, moves. No music.
> It runs in my Version bsContactVrml 7.105 , but blows Vivaty. probably
> due to script.
>
The musician is static, just part of the scenery; I didn't get round to
animating him. Even his tabor is held by invisible cords! There is no
music because the current version on the web site invokes a midi file,
which neither BSContact not Vivaty support. Vivaty works visually, though
not audibly, for me; except that during the animation, the dancer
sometimes loses an odd segment or two and may even finish dancing with no
head!


Lawrie Hodges

http://www.cix.co.uk/~hodges/me

I wrote:
> Do you have any recommendation as to a web-browser within which
> to run Xj3d?

Having done a bit of reading of pages related to Xj3D, it seems that I
have misunderstood its function and my question is invalid.